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Diamonds in the Rough (SPOILERS) #302285
03/30/08 07:20 AM
03/30/08 07:20 AM
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Nikolas Offline OP
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There! After Alkis21 request I just had to give in! laugh

I won't have any spoilers for the game, no, but probably others to follow will.

What I want to say is that the story is extremely well orchestrated. The scenario is well crafted, and dialogues are alive (and the voice acting helps very much to that). There is a constant tention rising towards the ending which is tremendous, imho.

The way that everything is revealed 5 minutes before the end and the fact that the while ending (with no clicking) is 18 minutes long, is enough to betray that there is a lot to be said about DITR company, Jason and other characters as well.

I haven't played many games with such detail in the story and such orchestration and well crafted scenario, in all honesty.

Plus it is something that I've never seen discussed in any game really. I've seen a few movies, but the issue(s) discussed are so real and so current that I can't help but feel that Alkis is... a political person and rightfully so! (political <> party/fan/obsessed)

Thank you alkis for such a game and such food for thought (and fear, since you mention that you took the information from various forums, which still gives me the creeps really...)

Re: Diamonds in the Rough (SPOILERS) [Re: Nikolas] #302366
03/30/08 10:19 AM
03/30/08 10:19 AM
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In the Naughty Corner
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Nikolas, I have not yet played the game, but am curious if you are not the same Nikolas involved in the creation of the game eg. the music?

Ana wave


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Re: Diamonds in the Rough (SPOILERS) [Re: Nikolas] #302384
03/30/08 10:42 AM
03/30/08 10:42 AM
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chrissie Offline
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I finished the game after a marathon on it (with a little nudge here and there from Len Greens excellent walkthrough) & have since replayed it!

I thought it was an excellent AG altogether before you even get to the ending! After the dramatic opening scene I was compelled to keep playing - I just had to know the reason! After an initial period of exploration I found the game flowed along quite logically - I especially found the use of 'thoughts' & later on 'special abilities' both novel & interesting but it took me some time to get my head round it (hence the nudges!)
I would be interested to know Alkis - when you were researching 'special abilities' whether you came across anyone you thought might be genuine?

As for the ending - well! - there are a lot of very strong, highly offensive & shocking views expressed in the context of the game & more disgustingly no doubt reflected by members of the real life organisations Alkis 'infiltrated' for research.

As for Jason being a coward - no! - he really didn't have any choice if he was going to stay true to his beliefs.
Click to reveal..
I did wonder though whether he could have got his message to the world without killing himself? - but then he couldn't seem to forgive himself for his part so far. Maybe he would have been killed anyway?

I think you are brave Alkis to approach this subject in a game & pull it off as well as you have done. It is certainly thought provoking & I hope the game does well! smile


Last edited by BrownEyedTigre; 03/30/08 10:49 AM. Reason: added spoiler tag
Re: Diamonds in the Rough (SPOILERS) [Re: chrissie] #302448
03/30/08 12:31 PM
03/30/08 12:31 PM
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LindaMarion Offline
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I was amazed the ending. I never thought of anything like this. As good as a murder mystery who did it, the butler?
It is different to all very many other games I played. I expected somebody who wanted to rule world or create a device to dominate everyone.
Its nice a change to get something real that is up to date and happens instead of witches and monster people and maniacs.

Click to reveal..
All the game I was expecting Jason to be saved at last moment to make a happy ending. You know the hero wins in the end. Whether that happens is up to each players to find by playing to end of game.

Re: Diamonds in the Rough (SPOILERS) [Re: LindaMarion] #302463
03/30/08 01:21 PM
03/30/08 01:21 PM
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Nikolas Offline OP
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Ana,

Yes I am. wink I didn't think that people didn't know this... I go by the same nickname everywhere and just assumed... I did all music, sfx, etc (general audio that is) for DITR.

And so, I know how to add spoilers...

Click to reveal..
In all honesty, I had no idea that DITR would be such an organisation! Plus there were never many pointers, apart from the fact that Jason never happened to speak to any "non white" person in game. There was only one character and he said nothing... but I would never've guessed...

What is stunning for me is that there are people who actually think the way the DITR people. Who actually believe in such "proof" of the white superiority and in all honesty (and since this is in spoilers I can swear slightly) the whole story scared the (blip) out of me!

Last edited by BrownEyedTigre; 03/30/08 01:35 PM. Reason: language
Re: Diamonds in the Rough (SPOILERS) [Re: Nikolas] #302465
03/30/08 01:37 PM
03/30/08 01:37 PM
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No Nikolas, we do not swear here, whether it be in spoilers or not. I edited your post accordingly.

Ana



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Re: Diamonds in the Rough (SPOILERS) [Re: BrownEyedTigre] #302466
03/30/08 01:38 PM
03/30/08 01:38 PM
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Nikolas Offline OP
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Ok, no probs and sorry about that. smile

Re: Diamonds in the Rough (SPOILERS) [Re: BrownEyedTigre] #302474
03/30/08 01:46 PM
03/30/08 01:46 PM
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chrissie Offline
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Hi Ana, saw that some of what I wrote was put in a 'spoiler link' - sorry! I would have done this myself but the thread title includes 'Spoilers' in it - I assumed only people who have finished the game would look here. duh

Re: Diamonds in the Rough (SPOILERS) [Re: chrissie] #302476
03/30/08 01:49 PM
03/30/08 01:49 PM
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Becky Offline
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Chrissie -- it's a close call, I know -- I think it makes sense to add a spoiler tag even in a spoiler thread if the game has just released days ago (like this one has) and if the information is really, really spoilerish.

If that makes sense.

Re: Diamonds in the Rough (SPOILERS) [Re: Becky] #302486
03/30/08 02:05 PM
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chrissie Offline
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Thanks Becky for the explanation - I will add spoiler tags in future but I did think I was pretty evasive & coy in my post! lol

Re: Diamonds in the Rough (SPOILERS) [Re: chrissie] #302490
03/30/08 02:13 PM
03/30/08 02:13 PM
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Becky Offline
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Coyness and evasion are much appreciated here. I frequently practice these virtues myself.

Re: Diamonds in the Rough (SPOILERS) [Re: chrissie] #302643
03/30/08 06:17 PM
03/30/08 06:17 PM
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alkis21 Offline
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Let me start by saying that yes, Nikolas is indeed the artist who wrote the excellent music of DITR.

Originally Posted By: chrissie
I would be interested to know Alkis - when you were researching 'special abilities' whether you came across anyone you thought might be genuine?


My research on that subject was not as complete as I wanted it to be because I couldn't find any people with such claims in Greece (no organized ones, at least), it was strictly online therefore I do not consider it to be scientific and I cannot give you any solid conclusions.
My personal opinion is that those people suffer from delusions of grandeur. However, I'm merely an electrical engineer, not a psychologist.


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Re: Diamonds in the Rough (SPOILERS) [Re: alkis21] #302658
03/30/08 06:38 PM
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crazy duh

Re: Diamonds in the Rough (SPOILERS) [Re: LindaMarion] #302674
03/30/08 07:06 PM
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Nikolas Offline OP
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Personal belief follows:

I've never ever seen or experienced anything of supernatural nature to the least! I've seen a few "incidents" on BBC (I live in London) where people appear to have some kind of special skills... A blind man that could actually draw a building after he would touch it for some time! (imagine that! Mighty impressive). A guy who could draw a... (how do you call it?) whole round map of London, after taking a ride on a balloon for a few hours. A guy who could endure cold, so much that he run a marathon, or at least some miles, in freezing conditions (snow everywhere), bare naked with his genitals only covered and not only survived, but didn't have any frostbites, at least not serious ones (he didn't loose any fingers).

These are simply stunning if you think about it, but it does seem to me that it's more about preparation, practice and natural tendency, rather than some kind of miracle! Don't mean to talk about myself but there are musicians and composers out there who can "hear" in their head what is writen in the score, without playing it! There are composers who don't have any kind of instrument next to them and just compose... masterpieces! This is some kind of miracle as well, isn't it?

There are people who can RUN for 26-27 miles. Not walk, run! Ever tried it? The marathon, and it's plenty of them! Poor Greek guy who first did it, in ancient Greece, died... (I'm Greek btw... Just so you know). And now you get SO many people doing it!

Imagine that now: There are people who JUMP 7 meters. Around 21-22 feet. Can you even imagine that? There is a guy running, then jumps ABOVE the whole of your bedroom and living room and then lands on his... behinds and is fine...

I don't know if it's amazing to do the stuff mentioned in DITR, which seem somewhat unlikely, but the above are all true (numbers taken from wiki, and other sources, so they should be right. Either way, anyone can check on the numbers really).

Bottom line is that there are special abilities anywhere in the world, I find! And we just need to know that it's just the human nature that is capable of doing it, with the help of God/nature/family/education/whatever. (/fatherly Nikolas)

Alkis, in all honesty, no matter that I worked on the game (everybody: I didn't know what the game was about until beta97 actually (beta100 is gold)), I find the ending creepy and scary.

Click to reveal..
I'm assuming that you also researched the ending and DITR purposes as well. Are there really people who think this way? Because this is quite awful, to be honest!

I might be coming back to Greece, as you know, and with children of my own I have to research schooling... The issue of "foreigners" in schools is most present in our time in Greece! And I'm wondering if this is something to go away, if this is something that would fade out in the end... But it still remains scarey to even consider that there are people arguing about the superiority of one person over an other...

Re: Diamonds in the Rough (SPOILERS) [Re: Nikolas] #305621
04/04/08 04:14 PM
04/04/08 04:14 PM
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Volkana Offline
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Very nice ending alkis and i really enjoyed the text at the end of the game in which you explained everything. You made this ending even more unique... smile

Last edited by Volkana; 04/04/08 04:29 PM.

Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
Re: Diamonds in the Rough (SPOILERS) [Re: Volkana] #306673
04/06/08 03:39 PM
04/06/08 03:39 PM
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sierramindy Offline
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Ah, the ending, so much to think about! Yet, right now, I just feel sort of down, I'm missing Jason. I've enjoyed adventuring with him and now it is over. I guess I need time to say goodbye. The ending fits the story and I can go along with it okay, although when Sydelle rushed in at the end I did have hopes. I will bet everyone did.
I'm guessing there are people all over the world who would like to join DITR, but fortunately it is fiction. Such thinking has been around for a long time. At least in the story, Hungerton's sister had a reason that turned her in that direction. You could feel sorry for her. It is too bad her brother went along with her instead of talking her out of such thinking and feeling. But then there would have been no Diamonds In The Rough game. It is one that I am sure I will remember for a long time.


To love is to be happy with!
Re: Diamonds in the Rough (SPOILERS) [Re: sierramindy] #307226
04/07/08 04:26 PM
04/07/08 04:26 PM
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Athens, Greece
alkis21 Offline
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For those of you who are interested in trivia & fun stuff:

Click to reveal..
-There is a painting in Jason's house. If you examine it, it says "You've been told that this is a portrait of Chris Jones. You don't know who it is, but he looks very important."
Chris Jones is the man who made Adventure Game Studio (AGS), the engine to create DITR.

-When Henry tells you that he used to be a mime in Jackson square, he's basically implying that he was in Gabriel Knight 1.

-The 'William Flake' Curtis mentions is of course William Blake, who by the way was indeed obsessed with the occult. The titles of the books he mentions are altered titles of real ones:

DITR: The Engagement of Heaven and Hell
Real life: The Marriage of Heaven and Hell

DITR: Chants of Experience
Real life: Songs of Innocence and Experience

-Likewise, the books you take from the library are altered titles of real books:

DITR: Rocketfall, by Jim Axleton
Real life: Starfall, by James Axler

DITR: Without Guilt, by Thomas Clumsy
Real life: Without Remorse, by Tom Clancy

DITR: King Mouse, by Jimmy Clavellmore
Real life: King Rat, by James Clavell

DITR: Black Mansion, by Stephanie Queen
Real life: Black House, by Stephen King

-The notepad in the receptionist's office reads "John 8:15". That particular script of the Gospel reads:
"Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man"

-The numbers on the receptionist's coffee cup are mentioned in the TV series 'Lost'.

-The nicknames that the DITR people are using belong to soldiers who fought for the South during the American Civil War.

-One of the folders in the warehouse belongs to Charles McGee, whose special ability is lighting fires. In Stephen King's novel "Firestarter", the little girl who can light fires is called Charlene McGee (played by Drew Barrymore in the movie).

-Two 'spiritual advisors' are mentioned in the game's credits. Their names are Bisblifflurayath and Asxthryafroth, and they were the demons from Alkis's previous game (Other Worlds).


Atropos Studios
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Visit our web site to order Diamonds in the Rough
Re: Diamonds in the Rough (SPOILERS) [Re: alkis21] #307444
04/08/08 12:19 AM
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Wow... Thanks alkis.... You filled a lot of blanks... Fascinating... thumbsup


Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
Re: Diamonds in the Rough (SPOILERS) [Re: Volkana] #307579
04/08/08 09:19 AM
04/08/08 09:19 AM
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Nikolas Offline OP
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I got 2/however many there were... heh...

Re: Diamonds in the Rough (SPOILERS) [Re: Nikolas] #307624
04/08/08 11:43 AM
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sierramindy Offline
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I got the first one. How could I miss it since I almost never used the Esc key!
As for the second one:

Click to reveal..
I knew there were mimes in Jackson Square from playing GK1. Also fortune tellers, and years ago, I had a pen pal who read Tarot cards in Jackson Square.


To love is to be happy with!
Re: Diamonds in the Rough (SPOILERS) [Re: sierramindy] #307899
04/09/08 04:55 AM
04/09/08 04:55 AM
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alkis21 Offline
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I have to say that the encouraging e-mails I receive daily from
Click to reveal..
ethnic minorities
make me very proud, some of them are quite touching. Thankfully there are no hate mails from "the other side"... yet.


Atropos Studios
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Visit our web site to order Diamonds in the Rough
Re: Diamonds in the Rough (SPOILERS) [Re: alkis21] #308024
04/09/08 10:04 AM
04/09/08 10:04 AM
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chrissie Offline
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That's truly wonderful Alkis! happydance

Re: Diamonds in the Rough (SPOILERS) [Re: chrissie] #308278
04/09/08 06:31 PM
04/09/08 06:31 PM
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alkis21 Offline
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Another thing I should add to the trivia list is that unless I'm mistaken, there is no 'Glenboro' in Kansas or anywhere else in the USA. There is one in Canada though.


Atropos Studios
Nothing adventured, nothing gained
Visit our web site to order Diamonds in the Rough
Re: Diamonds in the Rough (SPOILERS) [Re: alkis21] #308775
04/10/08 04:21 PM
04/10/08 04:21 PM
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Hi Alkis,

great game. I just finished it and I found the subject matter to be refreshing and up-to-date with our times. As for the trivia, that was awesome! Of course I did guess
Click to reveal..
that the numbers behind the cup were referring to Lost hehe Nice touch! Also it was fun how you made one character mention muggles and JK Rowling hehe
The trivia also shows how you put care and thought in the game. I have only one thing that upset me...
Click to reveal..
The game was SO scary towards the end! What possessed you to make those sudden scenes with scary music, like when we are shown the empty apartement? You really scared the [blip] out of me! hehe I am easily scared so I don´t think I´ll play the game again as it is too upsetting! Nice job on the scary music as well
. The hardest puzzle was not hard for me at all, which was kind of funny as I got stuck in other easier parts. Anyway congrats on the great
Click to reveal..
books/password puzzle which was very logic indeed!
. Anyway I am not sure what there is to discuss about the ending as I pretty much think we all see eye to eye about the subject matter here in this forum at least...however interesting
Click to reveal..
history "lesson" in the game about how white people have made the biggest advancements ,etc..I can see how that gives a different perspective than what most people have thought about. I guess you used some of those "theories" from the "doc" you met in real life? By the way your ending comment was quite creepy hehe


Gnothi Seauton
Re: Diamonds in the Rough (SPOILERS) [Re: jedi valius] #308972
04/11/08 01:34 AM
04/11/08 01:34 AM
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Nikolas Offline OP
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Jedi Valius:

Thanks for the comments in music! laugh

The whole idea about this... path in music started on the demo. The demo was complete, but was lacking the changing music while reading Sydelles letter. I asked Alkis 2 days and made the track, which also gave direction to the rest of the music. I admit that some things are just too scarey, but they do add to the atmosphere! wink

Now on the eye to eye comment, here is a quote from another forum, which I even ashamed to quote almost: Edited out.

Last edited by MaG; 04/11/08 07:16 AM.
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