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Oz Orwell Games #1147122
04/03/18 06:57 PM
04/03/18 06:57 PM
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fredaz Offline OP
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Where does one buy them?

Re: Oz Orwell Games [Re: fredaz] #1147125
04/03/18 07:42 PM
04/03/18 07:42 PM
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near Yosemite in California
Marian Offline
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There may be other places, but I see them for sale at the developer's website here.

Re: Oz Orwell Games [Re: Marian] #1147127
04/03/18 07:56 PM
04/03/18 07:56 PM
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fredaz Offline OP
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Thank you Marian. I found it where you said it was. I don't have their currency in my bank account though, so I will wait for them to hit GOG.

Re: Oz Orwell Games [Re: fredaz] #1147130
04/03/18 08:30 PM
04/03/18 08:30 PM
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near Yosemite in California
Marian Offline
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Originally Posted By: fredaz
Thank you Marian. I found it where you said it was. I don't have their currency in my bank account though, so I will wait for them to hit GOG.


If you purchase the game, I think it will just automatically convert the price into U.S. dollars and cents when the order goes through.

Re: Oz Orwell Games [Re: fredaz] #1147132
04/03/18 08:32 PM
04/03/18 08:32 PM
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oldbroad Offline
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There's one here: http://fireflowergames.com/shop/oz-orwell/

Fireflower is a Gameboomers member. I don't know how many Oz Orwell games there are.

Re: Oz Orwell Games [Re: fredaz] #1147308
04/05/18 09:33 AM
04/05/18 09:33 AM
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United Kingdom
m0ds Offline
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Re GOG: I'm afraid you'll be waiting a long time. It's not the kind of game they would accept.

But then, GOG only accept "big" indie adventure games. Serious dollar cash sign alarm bells $$$ have to ring in GOG's ears for them to consider a game. Case in point:

Nelly Cootalot: The Fowl Fleet, rejected. Demetrios, rejected. Tales, rejected. Captain Disaster, rejected. and that's just a few from the top of my head from my inner circle of developer friends, but the list goes on and I see developers affected by their rejections on an almost weekly basis.

Point is, GOG may be "great" for customers, but they are a pile of poop for a lot of small time indie devs, Midian included. People often say they will wait for a game on GOG, unaware that said developer literally cannot do business with GOG in the first place.

And aye there are 2 released Oz Orwell games, Crawling Chaos (1) and The Exorcist (2). I've had someone record lines for Oz 1 but yeah going back to the first point, the fact these games don't and won't make it to GOG and generally don't make much, impacts on whether we can really afford to voice his other games in the future and stuff.

But it's great of you to pick up Midian's games regardless and hopefully you'll consider supporting him directly rather than wait for the thing which will never happen (sadly) .. GOG. Adventure gamers who rely on the "safety" of purchasing only from the GOG store, I'm sad to say, are effectively giving many smaller developers the middle finger, as those developers have no chance of reaching GOG in the first place. Don't be stubborn, support your local friendly adventure developer directly (or at least, somewhere where they HAVEN'T been rejected!!) wink

Last edited by m0ds; 04/05/18 09:37 AM.
Re: Oz Orwell Games [Re: m0ds] #1147317
04/05/18 10:53 AM
04/05/18 10:53 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
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southeast USA
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Originally Posted By: oldbroad
There's one here: http://fireflowergames.com/shop/oz-orwell/

Fireflower is a Gameboomers member. I don't know how many Oz Orwell games there are.

Fireflower is where I bought the first Oz Orwell game.
Hopefully they'll get the second one soon.
They offer several games you can't find at GOG.

Re: Oz Orwell Games [Re: fredaz] #1147318
04/05/18 11:17 AM
04/05/18 11:17 AM
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In the Naughty Corner
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Fireflower is indeed much more developer friendly than GoG is. I’ve posted the GoG rejections many times here. I have lots of developer friends and they all get the same canned response which is that their games are too niche. It’s really a shame.


Don't feed the Trolls
Re: Oz Orwell Games [Re: fredaz] #1147331
04/05/18 12:36 PM
04/05/18 12:36 PM
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Dang! I hope GOG will take us... I mean, they do have T7G and T11H in there already so, hopefully makes sense.

Just stinks that they make decision on profit vs. around doing what is best for the gaming community. After all, if they put the game on their site, it WILL make money. Period.

Re: Oz Orwell Games [Re: fredaz] #1147422
04/06/18 12:02 PM
04/06/18 12:02 PM
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United Kingdom
m0ds Offline
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Yeah they rejected Tales because of its art (amongst other things, but that was the most poignant issue). So when you have a distributor that won't accept point & click adventures because of their art, which in most cases is mostly hand-drawn stuff, you start to wonder where their priorities lie.

http://fireflowergames.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Tales_8.jpg

So I'd advise always work on the assumption that GOG WON'T accept your game. Make sure you have a solid distribution plan in place that doesn't involve GOG. I see folks assume they'll be on GOG all the time, only to read their rejection a month or two later. Even I made that mistake, assuming Tales would make it to GOG (as they had taken all our other top tier games). I accepted the fact they would likely never touch our lower tier games (inc. Midian games) but this is where the relationship between us soured.

Sadly (or not) I no longer have much faith in them, furthermore their business practices and structure are stuck in the 90's, so possibly only releasing 1 more game onto their store (as a courtesy) and that's it. Don't want much to do with them at the moment, and can maximize our Steam sales to ultimately blitz any potential GOG sales out the water (which it already has done by a mile wide margin). But sure, as a GOG customer, it's fine. For developers, it can be a bit of a nightmare.

Last edited by m0ds; 04/06/18 12:23 PM.
Re: Oz Orwell Games [Re: fredaz] #1147428
04/06/18 12:07 PM
04/06/18 12:07 PM
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fredaz Offline OP
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Thank you all for your replies. Truth be told I buy a lot of games from sources other than GOG. I will checkout the Fireflower website, and consider trying to purchase an Oz Orwell game from the developer. thanks again for your input.

Re: Oz Orwell Games [Re: fredaz] #1147435
04/06/18 12:28 PM
04/06/18 12:28 PM
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Is there voice acting in the Oz Orwell games?

Re: Oz Orwell Games [Re: jimrh69] #1147438
04/06/18 12:30 PM
04/06/18 12:30 PM
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near Yosemite in California
Marian Offline
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Originally Posted By: jimrh69
Is there voice acting in the Oz Orwell games?


According to reviews I have read, the answer is no.

Re: Oz Orwell Games [Re: Marian] #1147460
04/06/18 04:47 PM
04/06/18 04:47 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 32,079
United Kingdom
Mad Offline
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I feel obliged to stick up for GOG !! yes

They have tweaked so many great old Adventure games for us - allowing us to easily play them on modern machines.
And certainly have not overcharged for them thumbsup

And NO site can possibly offer everything everybody wants duh


Time : The Most Precious Commodity
Re: Oz Orwell Games [Re: fredaz] #1147546
04/07/18 12:21 PM
04/07/18 12:21 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
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United Kingdom
m0ds Offline
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Heh well you're defending the customer side experience, which I don't think anyone here was complaining about. I put forward reasons why Midian's games AREN'T on GOG and that's not based on the customer side, that's based on the developer side.

The customer experience and the developer experience are not one and the same. By all means, defend their position with indie devs if you have experience of it. If rejection after rejection is ok because "they stock a game from the 90's I love" then fair enough, but we're not talking with rose-tinted glasses here. We're talking developers who have and are making good adventure games in the modern era that GOG won't lift a finger for because it's true, they want assurances about profit when they make their selection, which a lot of these games don't offer. And whatever else, they don't like pixel art, they don't like repetitive music, they don't like point & click adventures in general IMO lol. Remember on one end of the spectrum they have Witcher 3 and its profits, where do you think us p&c developers sit when they analyze and compare those figures...?!!

They're also somewhat aggressive. They ask for changes to be made to games so they will accept them, effectively influencing an authors work just to fit their criteria. They may rename games if they want (we didn't want them to call Downfall "Downfall Redux" but hey, they did it anyway). About overcharging, I've asked them to drop the price a bit on numerous occasions and those messages go unanswered. The developer experience is not as smooth and as nice as the customer experience. For a lot of devs the only conversation they'll have with GOG is the dreaded rejection letter. In comparison with Valve, they won't make us change our games, they won't rename our games to their liking, and we can set the price wherever we like and update it if we need to. Not a GOG vs Steam debate, the point I'm making is that certain elements of artistic integrity are safer with other distributors than they are with GOG.

And my original point. Let's say you really love the look of an adventure game, so you follow that developer, wish them the best, but you only buy your games on GOG. And there are a lot of people who "only" buy on GOG for whatever reason. But that developer can't get their game on GOG, but they can get it everywhere else. They need you to buy their game so their studio can continue to exist and they can continue to make good games. What do you do?

Yeah if you can't tell I don't have much patience for GOG nor for people who "only buy from GOG". It's the definition of stubborn. If you're a fan of something you'll surely buy whatever it is from wherever you can get it. I have absolutely no issues with the customer side of things, even I can appreciate the access to some nostalgic games, the developer side though - WORKING with GOG (not just BUYING from GOG) has so much left to be desired. But I do realize, my comments are more aimed at the debate of GOG + developers rather than GOG + customers. And certainly, I've digressed as this doesn't really apply to Midian/Oz Orwell -- well, other than the fact we know for sure GOG would never take those games.

I raised the point initially because of the wording "I will wait for them to hit GOG." cos I see this statement a lot and (no offence) it just strikes me as a bit naive. Like games turning up at GOG is either a) a given or b) under the control of the developer. You can definitely say "I will wait for them to hit Steam" because there's literally nothing stopping anyone to do that. But there is with GOG, barriers you need to smash through to even stand a chance. And with adventure games being so niche, every person who stubbornly only buys from GOG (and this doesn't apply to the OP who said he will look into other places to get Midian's games) literally does nothing for this scene or the developers making it happen for your enjoyment. Gotta step out of that GOG safe space to show your support (which I have no doubt most here do, I'm just saying on a wider picture, there are a lot of these people, you read them at adventure gamers, adventure game studio etc... there's always a stubborn GOG customer in any related discussion ready to pounce).

Last edited by m0ds; 04/07/18 12:39 PM.
Re: Oz Orwell Games [Re: m0ds] #1147548
04/07/18 12:37 PM
04/07/18 12:37 PM
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 44,313
near Yosemite in California
Marian Offline
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Just as a point of interest in terms of what indie games GOG does and doesn't carry - GOG has The Samaritan Paradox. Did this game make a lot of money, I wonder? I am asking this, because the contention seems to be that GOG doesn't take indie games that aren't going to be moneymakers. This title crossed my mind, so I thought I would inquire - perhaps someone can enlighten me.

I'm off topic here, but I promise this will be it. laugh

Re: Oz Orwell Games [Re: fredaz] #1147552
04/07/18 12:48 PM
04/07/18 12:48 PM
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m0ds Offline
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Sure, our first 3 games The Cat Lady, Samaritan and Downfall got onto GOG because a GOG employee fan (Jeremi) of Michalski's games approached us and lay the groundwork on GOG's end. If it weren't for him, I doubt GOG would have taken Samaritan. That's the game they asked for some changes so they would definitely distribute it. Maybe those changes helped, but I still don't really like random distributors trying to make changes to games they ultimately had nothing to do with. TSP has actually been quite successful. Not to the level of Cat Lady or Downfall, but for a niche 2d point and click that isn't very casual, it's done pretty well financially.

So yeah, I honestly think there was a slightly special reason there - that we were "lucky" - especially with TSP, cos we had a contact at GOG that supported our work at the time. If it weren't for that, I have little doubt they would have deemed it unprofitable and not wanted it. But that's a while ago now, 4 or 5 years, so I don't remember the specifics. EDIT: Oh another fun fact is that TSP also skipped Greenlight. It was our only game during the time Greenlight existed that got pre-approved (though I can't remember why again specifically, talking to the right person again I suppose). So ultimately, TSP had a lot of random luck on its side.

I'd imagine they will likely take Whispers of a Machine (and hope they do too) because that is 2 devs they do stock (TSP and Kathy Rain) working together. But if they (petter and joel) haven't been approached and will be submitting it themselves, those guys will still be up against the GOG review teams' opinion of hand-drawn art (which they seem to....not like very much at all). But again, they are so tight lipped, no-one knows who this team of decision makers are, whether they are the same people from one week to the next, what the bullet point criteria list is that GOG decision makers follow (though there clearly is one) and how much personal preference/enjoyment comes into the approval process.

What I do know is that on Steam it costs 80 quid and the press of 1 button. And you can even be Midian Design and be invited to have your game on store...lol. Humble appears somewhere in the middle. They won't accept rubbish, but they will accept some of the smaller names that GOG won't.

EDIT: Finally, I do still respect what GOG do and that they allow some of us indies onto their store and sure as a customer there is a good selection. But ultimately, I'd like to see them take more of a gamble on the indie scene than they currently do, because they clearly are interested in the market of new original games as well as games from 1985, so a gog.com/indies or something. Because there are some great devs, making great games (all genres I'm sure but point and clicks included) and they are not making it onto there when really they should be, as they are just as high if not only marginally lower calibre to what's already there. But hey, these are just my opinions and insights. Don't make the mistake I made of assuming your game will get on GOG, it was F'n stupid. is all. and I see more developers are aware that there is no guarantee, but rejection is rejection, it's not a very nice thing and "Oh well, it's just business" is still cold lol wink

Failing that, just be more transparent about their expectations of games, and then devs, like Midian, like all of us really, can build the better games that they will be happy to host. That would surely only lead to more, better quality games which doesn't seem like such a bad thing. Devs can incorporate this early in the process and at least know where they're heading on the possible rejection/approval front. The secrecy of the approval process does no-one any favours, not even GOG when you think about it... Okay sorry this went off topic. But wanted folks to have a realists view on why Oz Orwell isn't and probably never will be on GOG, but picking it up elsewhere will really help the little guy in this situation.

Last edited by m0ds; 04/07/18 03:09 PM.
Re: Oz Orwell Games [Re: m0ds] #1147629
04/08/18 02:59 AM
04/08/18 02:59 AM
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United Kingdom
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First I wish to state that I have been an Adventure game player (and therefore a member of the buying public) for many, many years and as such feel compelled to respond to your posts on this thread.

I am a definite GOG fan but stopped being a Steam fan a long time ago.
However, the pros and cons of GOG v Steam have already been done to death here on Gameboomers and I have no wish to start another such discussion.
I do, though, wish to comment on some parts of your recent posts.

You say :
“GOG only accept "big" indie adventure games. Serious dollar cash sign alarm bells $$$ have to ring in GOG's ears for them to consider a game.”
This is a very sweeping statement and one with which I don’t agree.
ANY company competing for its place in the market has to carefully consider what is viable and what isn’t - for itself.
The same applies to developers. They must fight for their place in the market like everyone else and if their product is turned down by one company they must try another.
Those are the hard facts of business competition that have always existed. And yes, they might be “cold” but they are the facts.

Also, like many others, I've supported Indie Developers for years. And bought their games from sources other than GOG.
My attitude is and has always been that I hope this or that Indie game might become available via GOG at some time.
[Purely because of the DRM Free element and the wonderful support GOG offer.]
And I’m sure that is also the attitude of many people.
I certainly don’t think as many folk as you are insinuating do blindly “assume” it will.

If a game of any sort is only available via Steam I’m afraid I won’t buy it. As a customer I, too, am entitled to exercise free choice.



Time : The Most Precious Commodity
Re: Oz Orwell Games [Re: fredaz] #1147649
04/08/18 07:57 AM
04/08/18 07:57 AM
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fredaz Offline OP
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Well, Since my last post I purchased an Oz Orwell game from Fireflower Games. It played well, I had no problems. I liked the Oz Orwell games so much I purchased the second game from itch.io . It plays well as far as I can tell. I just started The second of the two.

Re: Oz Orwell Games [Re: fredaz] #1147659
04/08/18 09:56 AM
04/08/18 09:56 AM
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fredaz, nice one! If you want voiced Midian Games that would be Apotheosis Project and Doc Apocalypse (both on Fireflower, but neither are horror).

Re: Oz Orwell Games [Re: Marian] #1147774
04/09/18 02:59 PM
04/09/18 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted By: Marian
Originally Posted By: fredaz
Thank you Marian. I found it where you said it was. I don't have their currency in my bank account though, so I will wait for them to hit GOG.


If you purchase the game, I think it will just automatically convert the price into U.S. dollars and cents when the order goes through.


Yes, that's correct. Our base currency is EUR.


Story rich DRM-free games - https://fireflowergames.com/
Re: Oz Orwell Games [Re: fredaz] #1147775
04/09/18 03:00 PM
04/09/18 03:00 PM
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And thanks fredaz smile


Story rich DRM-free games - https://fireflowergames.com/
Re: Oz Orwell Games [Re: fredaz] #1147890
04/10/18 07:00 PM
04/10/18 07:00 PM
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sanford Offline
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Hi, I just bought "The Crawling Chaos" from Fireflower for $4.09 US, converted from 3.99 Euros (or Pounds). Thanks for the leads, fellow Boomers. It's been hard to get from any other game seller.
Sandy

Re: Oz Orwell Games [Re: fredaz] #1147924
04/11/18 06:04 AM
04/11/18 06:04 AM
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Thanks sanford smile


Story rich DRM-free games - https://fireflowergames.com/
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