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Indie Games Vs. Resale #119903
01/23/06 12:04 AM
01/23/06 12:04 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 214
Fort Lauderdale, FL
BWiegele Offline OP
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We began selling Delaware St. John games in May of 2005 and almost immediately after release counterfeit versions began appearing on the web advertising "new" and selling for about 1/4 of our retail price. With a lot of time and upkeep we were able to get ebay to pull the illegal versions. However, we still received emails to our tech support regarding problems with these illegal copies.

While the artist in me wants to see as many people as possible enjoy our games, it's an impossible task to continue making games if you aren't paid for your hard work.

Something else that affects small companies negatively is the resale of legal copies of the games. While at first this sounds kind of silly, when it comes to such small sales figures received by Indie game companies, it affects us greatly.

When someone purchases a game from us they're showing support for our product, they're encouraging us to produce more. When someone purchases a game second hand there's no support for us and that single copy goes on to be enjoyed by two, three, four...however many times it changes hands.

Now, I'm certainly not going to tell anyone how they should acquire our game, as long as it's legal it's not my place. But I am going to ask that the next time you aim to purchase any Indie game, not just our own, take a minute to think about how each sale could ultimately mean the continuation of games or the demise of a company. Saving $6 to get a used copy of an Indie game sure is a tempting offer but it would help all of us so much more if you purchased the game right from us, showing your support for our efforts.

Well, that's my two cents. I'm very grateful for the opportunity to entertain people with our games and am looking forward to continuing to do so for a long time. Thank you.

-Bryan


The only thing certain is yesterday. http://www.delawarestjohn.com
Re: Indie Games Vs. Resale #119904
01/23/06 12:18 AM
01/23/06 12:18 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 639
Cape Cod, Massachusetts
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Hello Bryan,

When I received my copy of, "The Town with No Name", I was still involved with, "80 Days".

Now I am very involved with your game and enjoying it.

I just wanted you to know that I agree with you and you have my complete support. bravo LOU


"I don't want to belong to any club that will accept me as a member." Groucho Marx
Re: Indie Games Vs. Resale #119905
01/23/06 04:06 AM
01/23/06 04:06 AM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,451
Cambridge, England
Kickaha Offline
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A heartfelt plea which I hope everyone reads and understands. If I was in Bryan's shoes I would be a little discouraged to see how much newly released indie games get traded.

There are parallels to travelling players putting on shows in days long gone. Not everyone who watches will pay, but as long as enough people put their money in the hat the show can go on.


Used to answer to "Peter Smith", now answers to "Peter Rootham-Smith"
Re: Indie Games Vs. Resale #119906
01/23/06 08:57 AM
01/23/06 08:57 AM
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 26,917
Stony Brook, New York, USA
Becky Offline
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Thanks Bryan -- I would imagine that it wasn't easy for you to write that!

My Humble Opinion -- everyone who buys an Indie game from the developer becomes the equivalent of an investor in that game/development team. Those of us who frequent this forum care for the future of the genre, and we can follow the latest developments, including the rise of the Indie developers, in a way that the much larger group of "casual gamers" does not.

As it seems to be increasingly difficult for developers to get their PC games published in North America (I suspect this is true, not just of the adventure genre, but of other genres as well), supporting the Indies by buying their games is an excellent way to see to it that adventure lovers continue to have new games that we can play and enjoy.

Re: Indie Games Vs. Resale #119907
01/23/06 10:57 AM
01/23/06 10:57 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,766
FT. Worth ....Where the West b...
infernoj13usa Offline
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I have to say that I do agree with this.
Inferno


Watching: Dark Shadows
Reading: Angelique's Descent
Playing: WoW and living in Kil' Jaeden
Re: Indie Games Vs. Resale #119908
01/23/06 11:15 AM
01/23/06 11:15 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,964
San Francisco
fov Offline
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I certainly understand where Bryan's coming from.

On the other hand, just because a game's published by The Adventure Company or some other commercial publisher doesn't mean the developer is rolling in cash. Some are struggling to stay in business and some can't even stay in business WITH commercial publishing deals (just look at Detalion and Microids). Reselling games affects those developers the same way it affects the indie developers, and unless people are going to reevaluate their stance on reselling ALL games, saying "It's okay to resell games published commercially but it's not okay to resell games published independently" doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Look at Dark Fall, or Rhem. Is it okay to resell the TAC / GotGame versions of those games, but not the versions that Jonathan Boakes / Knut Mueller put out independently? Doesn't it affect the developer either way? What about a small developer like House of Tales or Frogwares. Just because they've never published their games independently, does that make it okay to take away their profits by reselling their games (keeping in mind that they're making LESS for a game than an independent developer would, because the publisher keeps a portion of the profits)?

I don't know what the answer is, but I don't think it's as clear cut as saying that reselling indie games is bad, but reselling commercial games is okay.

Re: Indie Games Vs. Resale #119909
01/23/06 01:09 PM
01/23/06 01:09 PM
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Colorado
ssgamer Offline
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As a keeper wheither it be books or games, I would hope we can all continue to get good adventure games to play. I just ordered and recieved the two Deleware St. John games. I loaded the first and started it, I am happy that I ordered them as I like them. It was my first foray into buying indepentents, but if they are all this good, hurray. So I'll keep my books and games and let my kids worry about them after I'm gone. I'm spending their inheritance as I see fit.
Charllotte

Re: Indie Games Vs. Resale #119910
01/23/06 02:58 PM
01/23/06 02:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,531
london uk
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I've bought quite a lot of games 'second hand'- mostly they have been older games but sometimes there have been newer games which I would prefer to buy new from the publisher/developer but I have not been able to! Unless you come on to a site like this and eventually realise that there are links to buying games which do support the developer/publisher people will continue to buy from auction sites etc. But even then not all developers cater for international buyers (eg 80 days) - also different language speakers which leads to 'pirates' who provide a game to cater for them - I can't think of an answer for that - but in other cases(and it all costs money) a bit more advertisement and availability!

Re: Indie Games Vs. Resale #119911
01/23/06 08:04 PM
01/23/06 08:04 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 404
Cleveland, OH
Ivinia Offline
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Phew...this is a tough one. Especially since it is perfectly legal to do (Cars, Books, Movies, etc.). Once someone buys something, they are perfectly within their rights to resell it if they no longer have a use for it.

On the other side of the coin, most indies struggle just to break even (most operate at a loss). Knowing they are sitting there with X amount of CDs that they paid to have mass produced and then seeing people reselling their copies has to be distressing to say the least.

Bryan, you often times compare the price of your game to going out to see a movie. There is one problem with that - they only get to see the movie once. If they want to see it again, they have to pay again (or wait until the movie comes out on DVD and buy it - again). I wouldn't be surprised if eventually we all own nothing entertainment-wise. You can see the industries moving into this direction (pay PER view). I look over at my 800+ DVD movie collection and know that in 5-10 years they will probably be obsolete. All movies will be distributed on a pay per view basis. Imagine video games doing that...

I think part of the struggle for an indie AG developer is that the market price is so VERY low (which makes reselling them even more frustrating). Take casual games, they take a fraction of the time to produce compared to an AG and people are more than satisfied with the $20 price point whether you are an indie or a corporation. Seeing people scoff at an indie price of around $13 is just crazy to me. Heck, Hope Springs Eternal for $18 and that covers shipping from Sweden??

From the consumers point of view, many people do buy games with the intent of reselling it and buying more games. If they couldn't resell them, they may not make the purchase in the first place or they might even expect the price to be even lower.

The only real way to get around it is to create a 'must have' game. If you build it, they will come. I know this will upset some people, but reviews no longer carry much weight. Word of mouth from players that enjoyed a game are what matters most. Make the customers happy and the games will sell. Personally, I thoroughly enjoyed DSJ2 and would be slightly surprised if its not selling better than DSJ1.

Sorry for the book! As an indie developer (casual games), I feel your pain. Especially in regards to EBay. Having to babysit EBay for people illegally selling copies of your game is just ridiculous to me PLUS they make you jump through hoops to have the seller removed (then they just pop up again a few weeks later under a different name). EBay should know better!!!

Re: Indie Games Vs. Resale #119912
01/24/06 11:32 AM
01/24/06 11:32 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,506
hunched over my computer
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I'm an author, so I understand some of your frustration. Copies of my book in a used bookstore don't earn any royalties and they don't show my publisher that I'm a valuable commodity. Used copies of my book listed on the product page of Amazon right next to the new copies make my blood boil.

On the other hand, I would rather have someone read my work than not. And I also userstand that traffic in used ANYTHING--clothing, furniture, games, books, CDs, etc--is a reality. And I can't disagree with it. Some people, myself included, have a limited amount of income to spend on pleasures. We have to always ask ourselves how much of the budget we can apply to certain things. If it's a question of buying a game used (or trading for it) or not buying it at all, I'll buy it used.

There are games (and books) that I buy and play/read and I know I'll read them again and again (this is most of them). But there are some that I immediately know I will never play/read. I'd rather get some use out of them by trading them, so that my limited shelf space us devoted to things I like and use.

For myself (in terms of my books) I don't think of traffic in used copies as sales, so much as advertising. I know if I pick up a game or book on the cheap and I like it, I'm almost guaranteed to buy new work from that author/developer in the future. I like to think others respond in the same way. So if I'm not making any money off the used copies, at least I'm not spending any, or any time, on advertising.

The E-Bay thing is a problem; it happens in the case of books, too. E-Bay does know better; they just can't be bothered. It's their policy for copyright holders to police their own material, which stinks, IMHO. But I don't know any way of solving this problem.

WW

PS--Ivinia, don't agree with you about everything going to pay-per-view. people like to own STUFF: stuff they can touch, stuff they have control over. Movie and TV makers have discovered that DVDs are immensely profitable; that's why things are released so much more quickly. I doubt they'll become obsolete anytime soon, if ever. So try to reassure yourself wink

WW


"So then he says it's enough to take aim! What's that supposed to mean?!?"

Re: Indie Games Vs. Resale #119913
01/24/06 11:45 AM
01/24/06 11:45 AM
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 11,366
Sacramento, CA USA
Betty Lou Offline
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From the viewpoint of a (guilty) buyer of used books and used PC games I too sympathize with the Indies regarding sales of their product. However, if you wish to restrict your sales of games to only first-time buyers you are limiting the number of gamers out there who will be able then to play your games. Some of us just cannot afford to spend LOTS of dollars for a game and once I buy a new game I don't always have a desire to play it more than once thru if I didn't like it as much as I had hoped I would. So what do I do with it then? Let it gather dust on a shelf in my game closet? Never to see the light of day again until I am dead and my kids throw out all that "stuff" I have saved? And if I cannot afford to purchase your game/s new because of the cost am I to accept the fact that I can never play it/them? You would object to my even borrowing a game from a friend? I do not think that is a realistic attitude. I love ya, and will support you any way I am able to, but I live in the real world and know my financial limitations.
Love, Betty Lou :kiss:


I am 'the HAT lady"! and "who loves ya BABY?!"
Re: Indie Games Vs. Resale #119914
01/24/06 12:43 PM
01/24/06 12:43 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 30,434
United Kingdom
Mad Offline
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Hi smile

I suppose a small up side might be that having "borrowed" or "bought used" one of your games, that player might then decide he liked it so much he will buy the next one himself ??

And if he hadn't done the former, would he ever do the latter ??

Cheers.

Mad wave


Time : The Most Precious Commodity
Re: Indie Games Vs. Resale #119915
01/24/06 01:06 PM
01/24/06 01:06 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 9,029
the dusty desert
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exactly right,Mad - if i trade one i don't like for one i do,i'm sure gonna be looking for anything else by the same people. and i KNOW we here have a zero tolerance policy for illegal copies (i don't shop ebay anyway) i have bought many indie games directly in the short time i've been a member here - i would never have known they existed otherwise... so i see small sales as partly due to the difficulty in getting those games out there - it's a tough thing thing to do

Re: Indie Games Vs. Resale #119916
01/24/06 09:21 PM
01/24/06 09:21 PM
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Sacramento, CA USA
Betty Lou Offline
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And so there is no misunderstanding about how I buy my games, I buy brand new games from the Indie him/her-self and would not touch ebay with a 10 foot pole for anything. I am not brave enough to deal with that many people knowing there are the "bad" ones hiding among all the good ones there. Life is too short to be worried about putting myself in a bad situation. And any used games I buy are from our own Trading Post almost exclusively, others I have BAAGed at EB brick/mortar store at my mall and they are originals not illegal copies (now EB no longer is selling used games at all, new policy since they were bought/absorbed by Gamestop).
Love, Betty Lou


I am 'the HAT lady"! and "who loves ya BABY?!"
Re: Indie Games Vs. Resale #119917
01/25/06 02:12 PM
01/25/06 02:12 PM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



This will be an unpopular opinion based upon the majority of the posts I've read but here goes......everyone stay frosty and open minded.

Suggesting that I don't resell MY "indie" games is ludicrous. What would you have me do with them when I'm finished playing them? I'm not a collector of games so, should I use the CD's as drink coasters? Should I not sell or trade in MY "indie" DVD's if I disslike or don't wish to watch them again? The comparisons can go on and on.

What about the gamer that can't afford to purchase the newer game or has an older PC that may not have the basic system requirements to run it? Who's going to pay $32 for an "indie" game anyway? I know it's not you asking that price BWiegele but come on?

I know you were merely "suggesting" that we don't resell your games or others and, I empathize. I just thought another view point was in order.

Re: Indie Games Vs. Resale #119918
01/25/06 03:43 PM
01/25/06 03:43 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,849
Texas
SnowMoon Offline
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Here's an idea... maybe the Indie publishers can offer to give a little discount on their other/future games if the purchasers mail back their original completed games to the publisher to resell... Like if, for example, DSJ originally sells for $20, have the end user mail back their original game and get $5 off purchasing DSJ2 (which would be, in this scenario, $15 instead of $20). This way, the end user gets a discount over buying full price for DSJ2, while supporting the original publishers. The publishers only get $35 for their two games instead of $40, but they have also acquired another original copy of the first game to resell, thus getting whatever profit there is, themselves. And if word gets 'round that certain publishers will do this, those publishers may eventually make better profits since more end users would be aware of it and mailing back games regularly.
Also, this way one wouldn't have to worry about unreliable/fraudulent ebay sellers.
I dunno.... maybe this wouldn't work, or would be too much trouble or not worth the little profit it would make.... Just tossing around ideas.... think

Re: Indie Games Vs. Resale #119919
01/25/06 04:47 PM
01/25/06 04:47 PM
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Posts: 1,337
CNY
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Quote:
Originally posted by BWiegele:


While the artist in me wants to see as many people as possible enjoy our games, it's an impossible task to continue making games if you aren't paid for your hard work.

Something else that affects small companies negatively is the resale of legal copies of the games. While at first this sounds kind of silly, when it comes to such small sales figures received by Indie game companies, it affects us greatly.

When someone purchases a game from us they're showing support for our product, they're encouraging us to produce more. When someone purchases a game second hand there's no support for us and that single copy goes on to be enjoyed by two, three, four...however many times it changes hands.


-Bryan
I don't really think the sale of used games should be hurting an indie. There's no question that many more people will be playing the game that way. If it's a good enough game then a number of those people will buy the next new one and you will develope a loyal audience, increasing your sales with a quality product. Possibly the answer lies in either cutting costs somewhere along the line or finding a way to get a larger market share. Any small business owner will tell you that there are x number of lean years to build the business up.

Here's a great way to keep me from reselling a game after I've played it.......make it so good I want to play it again and again.

happy trails,

Carolyn


www.spyglassguides.com Pop in and say hi!
Re: Indie Games Vs. Resale #119920
01/25/06 08:24 PM
01/25/06 08:24 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,841
Indiana
Demosthenes Offline
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Just a few minutes ago I cut all my library cards in half. The clothes I was going to donate to charity are instead headed for the dump. And I hereby promise I'll never set foot in a video-rental store again. I have to make absolutely certain book and movie royalties go to their proper recipients, and that clothing manufacturers sell their yearly quota of shirts.

I believe in supporting the local economy, so when I purchase a house, I'll make sure it's not pre-owned. I'm not going to sell my house, either. When I'm done I'm going to tear it down, ship the scrap to the original construction company, build a brand new one, and sell that. That way I avoid putting an honest architect out of a job. Twice. The same goes for any car I choose to buy: I'll buy it new, and when I'm through with it, out it goes.

As for the people hoping to make a living running used-bookstores, working in libraries, selling used video-games, or selling their own house--I say let them find an honest living selling new stuff.

Well, ok: that's the slightly sardonic response I'd give on just about any other forum. In this case, I'll try to be more constructive about it:

Bryan, I can certainly understand your frustration. The people selling counterfeit versions of your videogames are despicable, and doubly so for a game that has a relatively small audience to begin with.

But I don't agree that used-game sales are going to hurt your overall sales. Yes, in the short term, you lose a few sales of product. In the long term, however, you're building a user base, composed of people who otherwise might never play your game. Later, they might buy a game or two or three just because of that one good experience.

Just a few weeks ago, I bought Nibiru used from a local used bookstore. Why? Because I'd played a demo, and though I knew I might enjoy the game, it also didn't seem to be worth the price TAC was asking for it. So I waited for the price to drop. The bookstore was the first place I'd seen the game for less than $10.

Would I have bought the new game eventually? Not until the price dropped, and by then I probably would have found something better. So probably not.

But Nibiru did give me an idea what to expect in games from the same development team, (e.g. Black Mirror)--for better or worse. And, eventually, those impressions could lead me to buy another of their games--new, this time. Or even to preorder something.

As for the person who sold their used copy: would they have purchased the game in the first place if they knew they wouldn't be able to sell it later? Maybe. Or maybe not. If I sell a $20 game for $5, that means I was able to play the game for only $15. $20 might not be worth it to me, especially if it's a game I know nothing about and may not even finish.

So in this scenario, the ability to sell and purchase used copies of the game didn't lose any sales, but rather may have GAINED one.

The reality, of course, is that it's extremely hard for an independent developer to make money, or even break even. Every copy sold--or not sold--affects the bottom line. But I think attacking sales of legitimate, used copies isn't going to win any battles for you. Your major enemies are going to be counterfeiters and the unfortunate effects of operating in an environment dominated by a few very large companies--NOT the sales here and there of used games to people who probably wouldn't have bought a game new in the first place.

That said, I will occasionally purchase a game new merely to support a company--even when I know I can get it used for cheaper. I'm sure others here do the same. But I think the decision to do so is a very personal one.

I can't possibly afford to buy every game I want new. I can't even afford to buy every game I want USED. But I can afford to support a few game companies I like, to donate to a few webcomics here and there, to buy the books of a few unknown authors...and I'll thank you to leave WHOM to support up to ME.

Re: Indie Games Vs. Resale #119921
01/26/06 12:05 AM
01/26/06 12:05 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 214
Fort Lauderdale, FL
BWiegele Offline OP
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Fort Lauderdale, FL
Just to clarify a few points:

My intention of the post wasn't to tell anyone how to do anything, it was just a simple request to consider how important it is to show support to the indie companies where every single sale counts.

Becky put it best, when you purchase an indie game from the developer you're acting as an "investor" and doing your part to show support of the game and ensure another will be made.

The suggestion that "borrowed" and resold games expands the user awareness base is absolutely true. The only problem with that is this: If 100 people purchase Game X and 50 of them turn around and sell their used copy and then 25 of them turn around and sell their copy, that's 175 people who experienced the game and the developer only saw profits of 100 copies sold. In severe cases this would show the developer that the game was a flop for selling only 100 copies and no additional games would be funded so there wouldn't BE a next game to take advantage of that expanded user base.

At the end of the day everyone is capable of selling or purchasing a used copy of a game, there's absolutely nothing illegal or amoral about that, it's a free country. I was just trying to raise awareness to how important it is to an indie company to sell as many "new" copies as possible as justification to continue making games.

-Bryan


The only thing certain is yesterday. http://www.delawarestjohn.com
Re: Indie Games Vs. Resale #119922
01/26/06 05:39 AM
01/26/06 05:39 AM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,451
Cambridge, England
Kickaha Offline
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I hope Bryan you have managed to make some people think. This is an unpopular topic in today's self centred culture.

Does anyone have estimates of how many new copies indies sell as against sales of used and pirate copies? Or how many people start buying new copies from the indie as a result of playing a used copy? Without figures it's hard to draw conclusions.

There are certainly posters on Boomers who reckon on playing a game for the cost of postage. Buy it on eBay, play it, resell it on eBay. Smart. Wonder if they also expect technical support from the manufacturer.

The future is in our hands guys.


Used to answer to "Peter Smith", now answers to "Peter Rootham-Smith"
Re: Indie Games Vs. Resale #119923
01/26/06 08:02 AM
01/26/06 08:02 AM
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Posts: 2,014
Orillia, Ontario, Canada
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Bryan, you bring up an interesting quandary.
I came to gaming late, so most of my games were purchased secondhand. Mind you, most of them had been unavailable new for a while. Also, since I have such a backlog of games to be played, I rarely buy games at the time they're released. So, by the time I'm looking for them, there are often lots of used copies for trade or sale. It's only natural to pick one up for less than it would be retail.
However, I had made a point of buying direct from the independents as much as possible (just ordered your games, in fact smile ). Reading FOV's post made me realise there shouldn't be much difference whether I'm getting a TAC game or buying an indie. But, one thing that sways me is the fact that many of the indie developers participate in the Adventure Game forums, thereby establishing some familiarity. When I can put a 'face' to the game maker, I'm more inclined to support them by buying at retail price.
Also, if it's a game that I know I'll love - Myst series, Rhem - I'll not only buy the retail game, but will ante up for whatever special editions come along.





Re: Indie Games Vs. Resale #119924
01/26/06 09:24 AM
01/26/06 09:24 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 404
Cleveland, OH
Ivinia Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Peter Smith:
Does anyone have estimates of how many new copies indies sell as against sales of used and pirate copies? Or how many people start buying new copies from the indie as a result of playing a used copy? Without figures it's hard to draw conclusions.
Well, it's extremely difficult getting sales numbers from any source and indies are no exception. From what I have been able to gather, getting to 200 (Yes, two HUNDRED) is quite an accomplishment. You have quite a few BAAGs out there who will buy any game as long as the quality is decent. Have a bad interface or really bad graphics and it will take a miracle to pass 50 sales.

Good reviews and word of mouth does help and if your game is decent (average), you can reach 400 but it's a rare group that gets that high. If your game is very well accepted (DarkFall) you can reach into the thousands. Going by Jonathan Boakes interview on Adventure CIA ( Adventure CIA ) he reached 2,000 sales self-publishing before TAC picked up the game.

Let's be overly generous and sandbag the heck out it and say they make $20 per sale. At 300 - 400 in sales, that's $6,000 to $8,000 for a game. Some put out games faster than others but let's say they spent a year on it. They also work incredibly long hours so it's not hard to see that they are making well below minimum wage (in the U.S.)

Even with Jonathan Boakes high sales number (if you consider 2,000 high) consider also that he lived (I believe) near London which is an incredibly expensive place to live.

In the case of DSJ1 (Going by public information here.) it cost $45,000 to develop. ( Independent Games Festival ) (EDIT: They seemed to have changed the format. The budget is no longer posted with the entry. Hope I remembered that cost correctly!)

Do the math and assume most indie titles are sold at the $12.95 range and take out the cost of replicating, software, computers, etc., and well, as one indie said to me, "Don't quit your day job..."

Oh, and if you think getting published and put on store shelves will rake in the money for them, guess again. Stores and publishers take a HUGE chunk leaving the developer with very little. You'd be surprised at just how little (if anything) they see.

Since I do not know what percentage an AG publisher takes for each sale, I'll go by the Casual Games market where the the online publishers take 60%-70% percent and that is without a physical store taking their cut. TIP: If you really want to purchase that casual game, see if the developer has their own website that they are selling their game from first. Some of them are not exclusive to a publisher and they get 100% of the sales dollars when you purchase directly from them. Unfortunately AG developers don't have that option unless they are self-publishing.

Still wonder why AG developers go under after a few releases?

Re: Indie Games Vs. Resale #119925
01/26/06 09:37 AM
01/26/06 09:37 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 404
Cleveland, OH
Ivinia Offline
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Ivinia  Offline
Settled Boomer

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 404
Cleveland, OH
Quote:
Originally posted by colpet:
But, one thing that sways me is the fact that many of the indie developers participate in the Adventure Game forums, thereby establishing some familiarity. When I can put a 'face' to the game maker, I'm more inclined to support them by buying at retail price.
I think this is HUGE. Most indies underestimate the power of mingling. I see many pop into a forum with a game announcement and then wonder why they don't see many sales or get much feedback. Unless they have a game that is truly outstanding, they aren't going to get very far.

Re: Indie Games Vs. Resale #119926
01/26/06 11:18 AM
01/26/06 11:18 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,964
San Francisco
fov Offline
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fov  Offline
Addicted Boomer

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,964
San Francisco
I still don't understand why some people seem to think indies deserve special treatment. Either reselling is a problem for everybody, or it's a problem for nobody. Assuming it's a problem for everybody, it's up to the individual to decide who they want to support, and how.

As for "mingling," lot of adventure game developers post on forums, not just independent developers.

Re: Indie Games Vs. Resale #119927
01/26/06 11:33 AM
01/26/06 11:33 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 9,029
the dusty desert
niteowl07 Offline
BAAG Specialist
niteowl07  Offline
BAAG Specialist

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 9,029
the dusty desert
I do prefer to buy directly from the indie - in many cases it's because of the forum that i even know about them .and not everyone is going to buy every game that comes out to support the developer , much as we might like to ,for a lot of reasons - that's just not possible .

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