I had played this game several years ago, on my Win XP, and I don't recall having had any problems at all. Recently, I decided to replay it - on the same XP computer - and have run into a nasty glitch. I am at the Brennar's House, with a bomb about to go off. The problem is that I am supposed to put the ladder under the panel with the bomb, but there are two problems. First, the hero looks up toward the bomb panel, but NO ICON appears there. Second, when I click on the action icon on the ladder, the hero picks it up, turns around, but then gets stuck, wavering back and forth, but never actually putting the ladder down under that bomb panel (perhaps because no icon had appeared on that panel?) Thankfully, I can right-click and go to the Menu (for Load, Save, Exit, etc.), but can do nothing with the hero or the game... I know this is a very old game but I would really appreciate it if someone would help me out and ASAP, as this is most upsetting... Thanks.

The easiest thing to do here, I believe, is to download a saved game for the game here - that could help you get past your problem. This is a legit site that GameBoomers has used for years, so no worries there.

Just a thought. Do you have the item you need once you are at the top of the ladder? Maybe you cannot place the ladder if you have don't have that item? Also, since you can get to the menu, do you have an earlier save that won't require too much replaying? Maybe you can get through it that way?

Yes, I do have the item - a key I got from a box with a code in the same room. But even if I hadn't had it, there should have been an action icon on the panel under which I am supposed to put the ladder. That's the way it's been in the game - the action icon appears, even when you don't yet have the necessary item to use there.

As for the earlier saves, I've actually loaded the one right before and even the one before that one, but to no avail...

Thanks. I did check that list before posting my "SOS," but two things stopped me from trying it. First, I am not sure how I would go about using the save. I suppose I would have to go in the games folder, find my saves, and put in the downloaded save? But the second deterrent was more... well, deterring. The fact that I might have actually done more in the game than the player of the save had and, given the rather poor structure of the game itself, it might be impossible to figure out what I had already done is no longer there because of the other player's save. See what I mean?

Yes, I do see what you mean, but it may be the only thing you can do (assuming you have tried oldbroad's suggestions as well). There are multiple saves to choose from, though, and you would just have to hope that at least one or two of them might provide a reasonable facsimile of where you were before.

If this is indeed a glitch, I have no other suggestions to offer, particularly because the game worked for you before - it's hard to troubleshoot further this kind of issue.

I have the game running well but it's running in a virtual machine and I have never played the game natively in Windows XP.

The link I provided you has instructions about using the saved games in their help section.

There is one other thing you can try maybe. According to the walkthrough "you might be offered the chance to cop out". Somebody will die, but have you had the option to try that?

Just now seeing this post... bowling league tonight! I have nothing further to add other than what Marian and oldbroad have suggested.

Yes, I am *pretty* sure it *had* worked fine the first time. Can't be sure 100% though because it was so long ago - in fact, it was one of the first games I'd played when I first started playing games. Actually, I am beginning to wonder if it *was* this particular computer I'd played the game on. I have another one with an even earlier version of XP. I am toying with the idea of installing the game on *that* computer and transferring my saves to it. You mentioned you have the game running, Marian, even though in a virtual machine. And you had no problems with glitches at all, never needed to put a patch or anything for this game?

PS. Spent ... quite a bit of time actually... as installed the game on my old computer, and then tried to transfer my saves from the newer XP to the older one. Didn't work at all! I then tried to transfer the whole DATA folder (containing the saves), making sure to delete the game's DATA folder in the older XP. Still nothing. It seems that this game's folders are set up very differently from those of most games. Even after I substitute the saves, the game begins at the first still scene from which you are then supposed to load a save - only it does not load anything from the transferred saves at all, even though those transferred saves do show up in the LOAD menu. I had tried to transfer the DATA folder because I'd seen 11 numbered slots there which were outside, but seemed to correspond to, the slots in the SAVE sub-folder within the DATA folder. All of this work (in vain, unfortunately) makes me wonder whether downloading a save from the list you recommended would have failed to work either. It seems that the game has too many (hidden folders) to allow for any substitution at all. :/

As for the oldbroad's suggestions... as much as I appreciated them, I'd already tried them all myself, to no avail - which is when and why I had to post my SOS's here...

No. A couple of times, I deliberately chose what I'd known to be the wrong choice when one was given - just to see what happens. All I got was a cutscene - of a funeral - the hero's, of course! Makes me wonder - are you playing the original version of the game, or something developed later for newer OS's?

I took a look at our other computer last night to check out Final Cut. I was wrong: it is not running in a virtual machine; rather, it is running natively in Windows 10. However, I used a custom installer to get the game running that I found online, one of those things made by dedicated gamers wanting to keep the older games alive. It is the original version of the game. I can't remember right now exactly where I got it, though.

I can also tell you that I have never directed anyone to that site with the saved games where the saves did not work. Maybe this is one of those games where things have to be installed to a specific folder in order for them to work. I would have to look into that.

I played it in Windows XP without issue (that I remember). The first time I tried playing the game in a different XP, I had gotten halfway through the game when my computer broke down. It was years later when I played in this other XP that I have and by then, I knew the game had problems so I did refer to the walkthrough a lot in the hope of not running into any of them.

This is from the review by Steve Ramsey:

"Of more concern, though, was that on one occasion a hot spot that was the essential trigger to the next chapter did not appear. After wandering around aimlessly for some time, I sought help. According to the Arxel Tribe walkthrough everything necessary had been done so Joseph was definitely at a dead end. However I had not done the tasks in the same order as described in the walkthrough, and wondered whether this caused the problem. I reverted to an earlier save and followed the walkthrough and was able to generate the hot spot."

"I am also aware that another dead end has been encountered by players, one that I didn't encounter when I was playing but which I have been able to subsequently recreate. It is again a sequence problem, and despite putting in an hour of effort I could not progress, so as far as I can tell your stuckness is permanent. To make these dead ends worse, taking into account the way the plot unfolds and the nature of the specific sequences, the dead ends are likely to be encountered - if indeed they are common to all copies - by many players."

That is really good information about the game, oldbroad. Good to know during any playthroughs!

Thank you, oldbroad! Excellent to know sequence of events might affect gameplay.

That kind of thing used to happen in some of the older games. One example was in Sierra's KQ6 when I apparently found the Minotaur before I should have done - and a little "error" message popped up on screen that said "We didn't expect you to do that" and then the game crashed

[Not that I laughed at the time, mind you !! ]

I remember that, Mad. I also remember "save early, save often!"

Yes, please, do let me know what site it was. Thanks. As I wrote earlier, I couldn't get the game on the older XP to play the saves from that on the newer XP, even though its own LOAD menu recognized them, even showed the same dates! And I was unsuccessful even after copying the rather humongous DATA folder, which had included the SAVE sub-foler (after I had deleted the older XP game's own SAVE & DATA folders, of course, to eliminate any possibility of a conflict between the new & the old folders).

So... you are saying that the hotspot for the bomb panel at Brenner's might not have appeared because I did not play the game in a certain sequence...?

We can't say for sure, but after reading about the game's issues above that oldbroad quoted from the review, it does sound like a distinct possibility.

Quick Update, Guys...

I remembered that the first time I had played this particular location (still talking about my recent playing of the game now), it had taken me a while to figure out the code for the box with the key to the bomb panel. I had just got it out, however, when the cutscene that *should* have appeared *after* defusing the bomb, kicked in! It was a long series of dialogs, and I'd not had the chance to defuse the bomb. So... I replayed, and that was when I found the glitches: no hotspot on the bomb panel & the hero's moving-back-forth-but-never-taking the ladder to where he was supposed to put it: under that bomb panel. Thanks to Oldbroad's earlier suggestion though, I had an idea. I am talking about the cop-out you mentioned, Oldbroad. As I told you, there seem to be none in this game, or at least my *version* of the game. HOWEVER... it reminded me of that first time, when I thought I was almost out of time and the cutscene had kicked in. So I tried it... did whatever I could (EXCEPT for picking up that ladder, which always freezes the game) and then WAITED for the 10-min time limit to run out on the bomb. And it worked! Turns out that the "bomber" takes pity on the hero (no doubt because he/I declined to let someone else die instead of me) and defuses the bomb herself, as hinted on in that cutscene which kicks in after the time expires.

In short, I am able to proceed further in the game (thank God!). Hopefully, there will be no further glitches in the game, because I really would like to finish this game now (it did not turn out to be as interesting as I'd remembered from the first time I'd played it, several years ago...). Still, I *would* like to be able to overcome that glitch and see how I *was* supposed to put the ladder under the bomb panel and defuse the bomb. So if anyone can offer any further help on that score, I would really be grateful. So that I can finally finish the game without any left-over... "wonderings" as to how it was *supposed* to be done.

Thanks to all of you, one and all.

Very glad to hear that you are able to continue on with the game, Zurreen!

If I have any more ideas about the glitch, I will let you know.

So, if you hadn't picked up the ladder at all in your first attempt you would have been able to continue on in the game after the long dialog? Or am I misunderstanding that? At any rate, very happy for you that you can continue on!

Thanks! I would appreciate it.

Oh, and one more thing I forgot to mention, Marian. One more reason that it's not so good to use someone else's save is that the long cutscene that follows the bomb's time expirations, contains a lot of information. You can't save in the middle of that cutscene/dialog. So if you just substitute someone else's save, you will miss all that information (for whatever it might be worth). Note: I said "for whatever it might be worth" because I, for one, did not find most of the information very helpful. However, she does mention that there is supposed to be a secret/hidden room in the Manor, which is no doubt a clue *and* perhaps even opens up some possibility of further action in the game itself.

Yes, that's right. You see, as time ticks on, the woman offers to let *you* off the hook & blow someone else instead! You then get a Yes/No choice. If you choose Yes, then it's Game-Over, of course, with the hero's funeral cutscene! But if you pick No, do whatever you can get done (EXCEPT for trying to pick up that ladder!), basically wait for the clock to run out, then a different cutscene follows: the woman walks in the room, saying "you are stupid" (apparently because we couldn't/didn't defuse the bomb) "but decent" (no doubt because we declined to let someone else be blown off to save our own skin) and the game moves on.

In fact - and as I told Marian, it's not so good to use someone else's save - the long cutscene that follows the bomb's time expirations, contains a lot of information. You can't save in the middle of that cutscene/dialog. So if you just substitute someone else's save, you will miss all that information (for whatever it might be worth).

Note: I said "for whatever it might be worth" because I, for one, did not find most of the information very helpful. However, she does mention that there is supposed to be a secret/hidden room in the Manor, which is no doubt a clue *and* perhaps even opens up some possibility of further action in the game itself.

That's interesting Zurreen. I want to say I used the shovel on the bomb but I really can't remember even though it was only 2 years ago that I played it through. Enjoy the rest of the game!

Thank you, my friend. The game *has* actually become rather interesting since I crossed that... glitch. I am even thinking of replaying it on my old computer, after finishing on the newer XP. Just hope not to run into any more glitches though!

As for the bomb though, I am thinking ... if the older computer does allow me to put the ladder under the panel, I would probably need to use that key I got from the coded box to open the panel and then a knife to cut the bomb wires... Let's just hope I do get to play it on my older computer AND that it allows me to play on w/out any glitches!

I hope it all works out for you, Zurreen!

And I know the saved game solution was not ideal, but it was suggested with the idea that if no workarounds could be found, desperate times would call for desperate measures and all that.

Thank you, my friend. And I understood the reason for, and appreciated, the saved-game solution. Thanks so much again.

FYI + Question

Okay, guys, I went ahead and after finishing playing the game on my newer XP, I went back and replayed it on my older XP which, as I realized, is the one I'd used to play, several years ago. As it turns out, the game played a *whole* lot better in that one! There was an especially annoying bug in playing on the newer XP where, if I tried to replay anything with a dialog, a screeching sound would appear, shortly after which the sound would disappear altogether! So I would have to reload the game to try to hear the whole thing, if I didn't want to just read the dialog. And then, of course, there was that FATAL bug at Brenner's House, where the hero would pick up the ladder and then freeze in a back-&-forth movement, without ever bringing and putting down the ladder under the bomb panel. As I mentioned, I had to replay without ever picking up the ladder, and just let the time run out, for the woman to appear, in order to get past that particular glitch and still be able to finish the game. But then, I wanted to know what happened if I did successfully defuse the bomb.

Well, I had NO problem with that particular glitch at Brenner's House, when I played it on my older XP! Turns out that no icon ever appears on the bomb panel, as I'd originally thought. But the hero picked up the ladder and promptly put it under the bomb panel, without a hitch. There *was* apparently one little bug though. Recall that an action icon appears (to pick up the ladder) right after you see the cutscene/clue (pi) when you first click on the book in that bookcase. If you click on that action icon right away though, the hero will bring the ladder and put it under that bomb panel, yes, but then you are taken into a close-up on that bomb panel and you can't get out to actually go and get the key from that box you are supposed to open with the pi code! It is still possible to proceed further in the game though if you have already picked up the fireplace shovel. You just use that shovel to break the panel, instead of opening the cover with the key from the code-locked box. [Apparently, that's what you did, oldbroad. Used the shovel, instead of the key.] But if you want to use the key, you better not try to pick up the ladder until after you have gotten the key from the box. I can only wonder though if the bug *might* have been fatal if we hadn't picked up the shovel either! Because you definitely need either the shovel or the key to get at that bomb. I suppose you'd then have had to wait for the time to expire and the woman to appear, as I had to do when I played the game on the newer XP...

There is also another bug which is more nasty *looking* than fatal. Again, on the newer XP, I found that if you used the Map to get to the pool after Jack's raving about not being able to swim, then the action icon did not work, [i][i.e./i], I couldn't get the hero to jump in the pool; and even if I did manage to get him in the pool, I couldn't get that all-important close-up on the hatch there to get the box with the evidence. So the only way I could do all that was to have the hero stand at the Manor's front door and then *walk* over to the Pool, instead of using the Map to get there.

Again, that particular bug did not appear in playing on my older XP but, as I mentioned, a more nasty-*looking* one did and, again, only if I use the Map to get to the Pool. The action icon works fine. The hero would jump into the pool, swim over to the hatch, and get the box, all of that would go fine. But, after I would step out of the close-up, the hero's image would flip into something really crazy - like an open pair of scissors, looked-at horizontally! And he would continue in that silly "posture" (as if he were still swimming, only dressed in his suit) even on to the next scene, talking to Alicia, etc.! So, again, the only way to avoid that bug was to NOT use the Map to get to the Pool.

Other than the above two bugs though, the game actually played great on the older XP. In fact, I think I found a short videotape which never appeared in my game on the newer XP.

Note to oldbroad, especially: Before I forget, I think that review you quoted earlier was wrong. The game is not linear at all. As I mentioned, I played the game several years ago, and again twice now, but never in the same "sequence." The glitch at the Brenner's house was just that: a glitch, with the ladder. The problem the reviewer ran into is more likely related to the possiblity that he/she did miss something. Actually, I was able to finish the game on my newer XP without ever finding that short videotape! In fact, even playing on the older XP this last time, I am pretty sure I could have finished the game without ever exploring those last 3 motel rooms! I'd checked the cemetery right after talking to Robert, and Jack was already there. So I think I could have proceeded right along with the puzzle, etc., without even checking those 3 rooms. So the reviewer must have missed something far more critical - like picking up the Bird Machine or missing the area of the church where the body is found. Those kind of failures would no doubt block any further progress in the game. The problem is that there are just so many areas to explore, things to pick up (which don't disappear even after you've used them and don't need again!), that the reviewer must have just failed to realize that one or more critical object/area he/she had missed that prevented him/her from proceeding further in the game.

Now for the QUESTION that I hope someone can answer for me, *before* I open the Safe and end up with no choice but to finish the game!

We never seem to use Robert card at all, but we can *assume* that is the one we use to get back in his room after he is... gone. More critically, however, recall that we find 3 cards in Robert's room: Frenzy Card 1, Frenzy Card 2, and the Safe Card. Well, we use the Safe Card to open the Safe, of course, but we never seem to need/use either Frenzy Card at all! Also, in addition to the two slides, we also find and pick up something that *looks* like a card in the Safe as well. But the PDA never recognizes that we'd picked it up, and we never get to even see it in our inventory, let alone use it! I have looked up a couple of walkthroughs, including the one by Gameboomers, but they don't mention USING any of those cards either. As I noted earlier, I think I could have finished the game on the older computer without ever exploring the 3 rooms. So that is no doubt why I, and those walkthrough-writers, have all been able to finish the game without using those Frenzy Cards or the Safe's card-like object. But has anyone even *tried* and succeeded in using - or even wondered about - these 3 cards? Please, let me know ASAP, since I would very much like to know if these cards can be used, so that I would be able to do so *before* I finish the game this time (quite possibly the very last time in my life!) Thanks.

Hi Zurreen. I'm thinking that the reviewer was correct for just the reason you are stating - because the game is non-linear, you can do or not do things that may affect something later on in the game. If the game was linear, you would absolutely have to do certain things to even get to certain points in the game. ??

Anyway... that is too much detail for me to really remember about the game, whether or not I tried using (or even found) certain cards. I'm sorry I cannot be more helpful to you regarding that. I think the only way to find out is to go ahead and give it a try.

Thanks for the response. Unfortunately, there seem to be no more rooms left to even open! That was why I looked up the walkthroughs, to see if they had at least commented or wondered about them. But... they picked them up, as I had, but nothing further was said about them. So I guess the purpose of those cards, if any, will forever remain a mystery...

As I was checking around online, I did find that Hitchcock had made a movie, "Frenzy." But then, the other cards we'd found - and used - as well as the rooms they opened, were all named after Hitchcock movies too, like "Psycho," for example.

If only, one of the people reading my post were some kind of a "hard-core" Hitchcock fan, who delved in the game and found something I might have missed, some place where or object on which these 3 cards were supposed to be used...

I remember seeing the movie Frenzy when it was first released and it scared the daylights out of me.

If I see anything about this on line, Zurreen, I will let you know.

Thanks so much, Marian. I would really appreciate it. Guess I'm going to have to finish the game without ever using those cards though...

As for the Hitchcock movies, I never saw the originals. I saw *parts* of Psycho from some foreign channel, which had cut up the version so badly, it was practically reduced to half what must have been its original length! I did see a couple of other of his movies on DVD though - Vertigo and Rear Window. But they seemed ... a little out-dated, compared to movies these days. Still nice and clean fun though.

By the way, since you mention seeing at least one of his movies back when it was actually released... Do you happen to know whether what the game's Robert says is actually true? That Hitchcock's last movies were neither glamorous nor successful, that they failed because the viewers realized Hitchcock hated people, etc.? I did check the wikipedia on Frenzy though, which is said to be Hitchcock's "penultimate" movie, and *that* one at least seems to have been quite a success, as most of his movies.

Are the cards something that are used in a viewer or other inventory gadget?

Sorry if that,s a stupid question. I just really can't remember all the game details.

I don't know if that is true or not, Zurreen. I would have to research that about Hitchcock's last movies.

The Birds is another one of his movies that is well worth watching.

Oh, no, not stupid at all! I am talking about the magnetic cards that were used to enter rooms. The viewer used only 3 slides (red, blue, and green), all of which were then put in the viewer to open the door to the secret hidden room. There were no other slides, and the viewer was not used for any other purpose.

No, these Frenzy 1 & 2 cards went into the PDA section of Magnetic cards - along with the other cards: Psycho, Topaz, Saboteur, etc. - all probably named after Hitchcock's moview and used to open doors in the Motel/Hotel's rooms where the cast and crew members had stayed.

Oh, yes! How could I have forgotten the Birds?! That was in fact the very first Hitchcock movie I ever saw, albeit long after its release. I was pretty young too then, and did not understand much of what was going on. But I certainly got the fear of being surrounded, and later even attacked, by such a huge swarm of those birds!

And, yes, I didn't think Robert could have been right about his views of Hitchcock's success OR personality - that Hitchcock basically hated us people, and all that. But I was even more concerned about... well, those so-called Bible passages that we got to read in different rooms. I realize that there are different versions of the Bible, of course; but I for one was astounded to read especially some of those passages - like Lot's two daughters drugging him with wine and then "sleeping" with him, to preserve his "seed"; or Aaron actually helping the people make that Golden Calf, before which he then built an altar so people could pray to it! I thought Aaron was supposed to be Moses' right-hand man, not someone who would lead the Jewish people astray when Moses went to get those 10 Commandments!

Is that the kind of passages you guys have in your Bible too? (I hope I am not offending anyone, but I did want to know, considering how the game's passages... well, I just found it so hard to believe.)

I haven't played through the game yet, so I can't offer an opinion on that.

Let me know when and if you play it then. I'd be most interested in your opinions.