I assume this discussion was held here, at the time, many times. I however was not a part of it and feel I owe this marvelous game (is it really a game?) at least a thread .

I had just finished it.
While I find it hard to call it my favorite game ever (and I'll soon go in details with that), it had some elements... that I, as a player, always envisioned, or wished to see, in a game. A feel of realism that you get when you watch a moovie, or when yuo read a book.
Dreamfall had it. It brought me to some very, very powerful moments.
As for the gameplay... well, there isn't much, if you'd ask me. You're mostly wondering about, making errands from here to here. Can't say it was tiresom, but wasn't exactly challanging either. Easiest game I've ever played. And I'm used to hard, solid games, in which you need to sweat in order to advance .
Although this element did lack in Dreamfall, it did not bother me. The story was soooo compeling, so creative. The characters. The atmosphere.
The... ending.
I have never, ever seen such an ending.


To make tihs post relavent: I have understood there should be a sequal to Dreamfall. Is it official? Is there a date? Where do I find more info on it?

Hi Tomer -- Funcom announced a few months ago that they'll be developing the sequel as a series of episodes, starting out as downloads. Since then we haven't heard any more about it.

Hello Tomer-
I recently finished Dreamfall and am now playing it again-It's so compelling and such an interesting story-I'm picking up on things tat I didn't see the first time.The ending is kinda sad though. I hope there is a sequel!

Hi Tomer, I loved the game also & the story within it was concluded nicely but did feel that a lot was left hanging. As I understand it's going to carry on in downloadable episodes?

There is a lot to dislike about Dreamfall. The pointless fighting scenes along with the seemingly endless stealth drove me to distraction. I also did not care for the presentation of Stark disintegrated into a "junkyard" of depression. TLJ's April certainly would not have recognized it. But I agree it is an outstanding game. The lack of puzzles bemoaned by many did not bother me at all. The story is the game and it is amazing. Where it lands on The List of great games will be a debate all it's own. It certainly is not The Longest journey which pacts a wallop and defines the wow factor. I regard TLJ as the best ever some will agree some won't But the countless endearing characters, the places, and well crafted story has never been equalled. Presently for me Dreamfall is barely hanging on to the top ten. We have a couple of Gabriel knights, Broken Swords ( at least one ), Syberia, maybe even Culpa Innata taking up space. Where does Dreamfall fit in? I am still uncertain, but it's great enough to be considered. Perhaps if Ragnar can I know that's a lot. Do that and we will have the Greatest Adventure series of all time.

I believe the above post by oldmariner contains a spoiler which should be covered up.

Ah, Dreamfall, what a heartbreaking experience that was for yours truly. The first part with Zoe's story was so wonderful I was ready to nominate it to the Hall of Fame with all the award available. But then came April and I stayed with her and the early fighting scenes even though I wasn't happy with them, but then April entered a cave with the evil troll killing her and she could not fight back so never had a chance. Stealth was hard for me since I would move on the wrong pixel somehow and the game would hang up, April's feet would be moving but she was stuck in one place and I would have to go to a save. After a few saves and the times I got killed and had to start over (I think the game had an automatic save there) I got completely lost in the cave. The puzzle with those runes was way beyond me to add to my problems so I just gave up, feeling terribly letdown after the high of the beginning. I will never forget this game though. That's something anyway!

no comment

THanks Ray...got it.

Ana

What bothered me a lot was how they substituted those annoying timed arcade "challenges" as door locks instead of using real puzzles. Always the same type too, no variety.

There's no doubt about it - the puzzles in this game were very, very plane. They were not creative by any means, repetetive, and didn't make much sense.
But let's not forget that puzzles are there mostly to support the plot and story. They are a tool. And I've mentioned already I really like puzzles, good puzzles, but I've never ceased to believe that puzzles should be constructed for the sake of the story, and not for the sake of being a puzzle.
So, if the story is what Dreamfall does best - let it be. It hardly needed the puzzles to be excellent.
Who knows how this game would be preceived by adventurers, if it were to have good, solid puzzles.

Tomer, have you finished the game? I had to struggle to get used to the interface, but I ending up loving the game.

Of course I finished it, I posted this thread right after, feeling overwhelmed, and I had to release my energies somewhere .
I got used to the interface in no time, I'm a quick learner.

I disagree. The puzzles and the story have to go together. Otherwise you have a movie with interruptions.

Well, what would you prefer? A movie with interruptions (Dreamfall?) or a series of puzzles, that connect nothing with nothing?
Even if you're not cracking your head up, and just leading your character from a place to another, plus choosing the forms of dialogs - I still call that gaming.
In my eyes, what gives games their special thing, for me, is the fact that they give you the strongest illusion of being a part of the story.
If there's no story, there's no game. At least, not an adventure game. Might as well play mine sweeper.

However, I do agree that a game with good puzzles, integrated with the plot, has a definite advantage. I still claim puzzles should support the story, and not vice versa. I don't see how that's not true.
If someone were to develop a game, I would want him to have a vision for a story, for things he wants to convey. Only afterwards, I think he needs to develop good, solid puzzles for the sake of the plot.
Of course you could have your "puzzle-game" thingy, which might be fun, but really, I can't even compare the two.

The puzzles. At least then it would be a game.


I'd call that an interactive movie rather than an adventure game.


I never felt I was "part of" the Dreamfall story. I felt I was "witnessing" it, just as I would witness a movie. Occasionally it would be interrupted by the need to fight something or do one of those stupid lock minigames.


If there are no challenges, there's no game.
Dreamfall had "challenges" in the form of clumsy fights and lock find-and-click-the-symbol-real-fast minigames. There weren't many adventure type puzzles at all, and the ones there were were often flawed (e.g. - the sound that only played once that was supposed to be a vital clue for a puzzle).


So all puzzles look like minesweeper to you?


What differentiates it from a movie then?
Not just the puzzles, but the type of puzzles.


There's something to be said for developing them at the same time. You can have a rough outline for how the story goes, but once you get into the details of how the story will progress you should consider the puzzles at the same time. That's probably the only way you can get the pacing of the story correct.

Well, if you want it like that:



Then perhaps our expectations from games are different. While you might be correct to call a series of puzzles a "game", it would still be a very empty game in my eyes. If all games were like that, I would really want to go to movies and read books only.


Call it what you like. I don't believe there should be only one type of adventure game. It's like saying "that's not true art". It might not be a game by your definition, but it certainly is by mine.


When I said a "part of", I meant the fact that you control the pace and progress of events. You sympathize with characters, and lead them. Of course it's programmed, like every game, but the illusion is what matters.
Besides, you obviously speak for yourself since there are many who were really touched by this game.



Again, if we're talking about a "game" in it's classic definition, I guess you have a point there. However, I still think that a game centered only around puzzles would be "fun", at best. Nothing close to experienced I have with games I consider good. It would take the essence of the word "adventure" away from adventure games.
btw, the music puzzle - you actually get to hear the creatures humming the 4 tunes all the time. This is how I solved it. They just never stopped humming the tunes until I opened the door.
Also, another beautiful element that I noticed is that these four tunes were an axis for the soundtrack of this area. It was very haunting.


Of course not. Most of them are related to a certain plot line.



What diffrentiates it from a movie is the fact that you still lead your character in your pace, you still get an illusion (most of us did) that you're responsible for the plot's progress, and besides: there are some challanges in Dreamafall! That part in Victory Hotel... Oh my g*d! That was so frightning, and I failed a couple of times.
If a game were to have no challanges at all, I would find it a bit silly, but if it had a really good plot, I'd play it anyway.
I dunno, I might also enjoy playing a game filled with puzzles and nothing more. But I know that while one might make me excited, anticipated, frightened, anxious, curious, etc.... the other would only be fun. At best.



It definitely sounds ideal.
I'm only saying - if you'd tell me: Listen, I have two games; one has a really good critisizm about it's plot, story, elements, etc... while the other has some really good puzzles...
I would take the plot game .
The best puzzles I can think of, are always strongly related to the plot.
I really liked LSR in GK3, for example. One of the best puzzles I've ever seen.
Also, the spider chair in Spire, in Myst 4 (and Spire generally).

A puzzle with nothing behind it is so... empty.

I may as well comment once and for all. Glad I played it (?) or whatever it was you did with the so called game. But it is at the bottom of my list as far as games go. Great story though!

I'm playing the game right now(Thanks to a special person) and I'm enjoying it. I dont like the fighting but the storyline is interesting.

The most annoying thing about it is that they must have had the ability to design better puzzles, but they apparently couldn't be bothered. TLJ had much better puzzles -- the alchemy puzzle, for example.

Thanks a lot Tomer for your review of Dreamfall... I didn't want to play this game because the previous one(The Longest Journey) was for me a very boring game with a lot of walking and no story. After i read your review i definetely give it a try. At least it has puzzles...
It sounds promising...

Volkana.... the whole discussion is about the fact that Dreamfall doesn't really have puzzles :), but a wonderful story.

Jenny100, I was talking about that puzzle.

It seems that i missed that part or i understand wrong...
I thought you said that there were puzzles but not challenging at all and very common...
Anyway...

Sorry...

I learn something new every day! I didn't realize that

A good reason to go back in Dreamfall and see what else I missed.