I have a question about the general style of rpg games. I try to avoid what I would call "3rd person" games where you view your character from a helicopter view hovering at a distance above the playing area. I prefer the "1st person" view where you are slightly behind the character so that you see the action close-up.

That said, is my terminology correct? I would define Oblivion as a 1st person game. True? And the option exists to play Witcher in this style also.

Would Avencast be a 3rd person game? I haven't played it but from the trailer it looks to be this style. It seems that Neverwinter Nights and Baldurs Gate are of that style also. Correct me if I am wrong because I haven't played them.

So, in this case, are there any newer 1st person games out that I might enjoy playing? I have played Two Worlds and enjoyed it, as well as Oblivion and Witcher. What to do next??

Thanks for your help.

I always thought 1st person is when you ARE the character, in other words you don't see the character at all (think Nancy Drew). 3rd person being when you play the character and see the character, no matter where they stand, close or far.

1st Person = Point of View or POV. As PMcOuntry stated you are the character. Your view is essentially from inside of the characters head.

3rd Person = Outside of Character. This can be either an overhead Isometric view (your "helicopter" view) or an over the shoulder view. If you can see any part of the main character from behind or their head it is a 3rd person view.

Isometric is required for the earlier 2D RPG's for just that reason, they are 2 Dimensional and use illusions to give the effect of depth. It's like looking at a picture on a flat piece of paper. In order to see all of it your view has to be perpendicular to the surface.

Most games that are 3D such as Oblivion allow a choice between 1st and 3rd person views because there are circumstances where one may not be as advantageous as the other.

Yes, 1st person is usually used to mean games where you can't see 'yourself'. So games like Doom/Quake/Half Life genre, the Myst games, the Nancy Drew games, Bioshock, and Crysis qualify in this category.

Third person is sometimes used to mean games like the Tomb Raider series, both of the Prince of Persia series, Anachronox, and Two Worlds where you're controlling an avatar (me, a little removed, if you like) that's always visible. However, I think this would be better described as Second Person because your viewpoint is up close & personal - you'll see my reason for the distinction in a moment.

IMHO, third person is when you're really at a distance like Jack Keane or Sherlock Holmes and the Silver Earing. These are the real puppet-on-a-string games, where you tell the character (not 'me', but a character) what to do, and where to go.

Oblivion is somewhat of a special case in that you can play it either 1st or 2nd person (same with The Witcher, which is based on the Neverwinter Nights 2 engine, btw.), and you're able to switch at a moments notice with a single key-stroke (R). However, in Oblivion, the 2nd person view is called the 'vanity mode', and your player animations are somewhat clunky in this mode. IMHO, of course, but just compare Oblivion to Tomb Raider Anniversary (I'm sure YouTube will help out there) and you'll see what I mean.

My preference is for 2nd person - it's one of those purely subjective preference things - I just prefer to use an avatar in the game world, rather than being there myself - I can't see what's behind me if I'm in 1st person mode. Oh, and I find 2nd person more amenable to the spectacular because the camera viewpoint has a wider field of vision.

Specific recent games of the first person category: Bioshock and Crysis. Both have high requirements, but seem very good from their (enormous) demos. I've not played the full games because I didn't particularly like them when I tried the demos this weekend.

Specific recent second person view games: Tomb Raider Legend & Anniversary, Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones, God of War I & II. I'm sure there are more... someone please give some more examples, I need more games like these!

Gremlin

I haven't played many RPG games but i think i like both styles. For example i did enjoy the gameplay of Sacred and i also enjoyed Fable... . It depends on the game i think

I think what you're saying Gremlin is a tad confusing, since it's not what the industry uses. But interesting!
To make the topic even more confusing, the bird's eye view (your helicopter view, wownut) in some games can be changed by scrolling in and out to view differently, like Sacred Plus. Up close when you want it, further away when you want it, like to see approaching baddies.
Also, occasionally what is for all practical purposes a first person game will show an arm - usually with a weapon.
But it would be safe to say you're looking for a third person RPG with an over the shoulder view, wownut. I haven't played Avencast, so perhaps someone that has can comment.

Avencast is a great game. I have played the demo. I think the camera can be changed to over the shoulder view. I was able to zoom the camera in and out when I wanted to do so.

To answer wownut's original question, Bioshock and Halo and Half-Life should do the trick. Halo 3 is out as is The Orange Box for
Half-Life.

I mostly play 3rd person games, so I don't really follow games that uses the first person perspective. I stumbled upon one at rpgwatch called 'Stalker' which is fairly new, too. You might like this game, I think.

wownut, I think you're just asking about RPGs though, right? Just wanted to be sure you knew that Bioshock, Halo and Half-Life aren't RPGs.

-ooops---

Yes, wownut wanted to know about 1st person rpgs...

That'll teach me to read a post more carefull ....

I think the view that you describe, wownut, is more akin to the point of view used in games like Baldur's Gate and Fallout and possibly NWN 1 and Icewind Dale 1+2.

If you want RPGs with either a 1st person viewpoint, the only one, I can think of right now is a game called Arx Fatalis or the new Might & Magic game. (although some might argue that it is more akin to an FPS than a an RPG just like some like to say that Stalker is more of an RPG than some other games even if its a FPS game...).

If you want rpg games which has over the shoulder view, didn't KOTOR 1+2 use this camera mode? NWN2 do, I think. I also think that Dungeon Siege and Silverfall use an over the shoulder camera, but am not completely sure...

wownut the Tomb Raider series kind of uses both 1st and 3rd person. They are a lot of fun. I highly recommend them, especially the earlier games.

Isometric 2D a'la Baldur's Gate and Fallout is the way to go for me. Developers could keep releasing game in such styles for how long they want to...and as long as the story and rest of the game is good, I couldn't care less about 3D graphics.

And of course, Tomb Raider aren't RPGs either wownut, but lots of folks like them.

You can play Oblivion in either 1st person or 3rd person view.

1st person = you are playing the game through the eyes of the character that you are controlling.

3rd person = you are playing the game from outside the character's body that you are controlling. The view you have depends on the game..and sometimes will give you different view options. Over the shoulder, from high above...or higher above, above and behind etc.

Thanks everyone for the information - sorry it took so long to get back here (sometimes the "real world" interferes with my game life.

OK, I guess that I can accept playing in the 1st person although it is not my favorite. It is a little disconcerting to see only a pair of hands in front of you, I think.

I definitely prefer the 3rd person view where you are looking over the character's shoulder. It was nice in Oblivion (I think it was) where you could zoom in or out with the view.

In which case, the games that I really don't like use the Isometric view where you are looking down on the game as in the old board games. I gather that these are like the early Baldur's Gate game. Was Neverwinter Nights an Isometric game at first? I avoided that game because I thought it was like Baldur's Gate.

I have found that I no longer like the first person shooter games - although Crysis was beautiful I just got tired of killing people constantly. The Tomb Raider series was difficult for me because I could never master the jumps. I gave up after a few days of frustration and cussing as my character always fell to the bottom of another chasm.

Anyway, thanks for the advice and information. I guess I will try playing Avencast next and maybe Vampire Bloodlines. Maybe I'll check out Neverwinter Nights II game too.

Hey wownut,

Missed your last question so a little slow on the follow-up. The view in the first Neverwinter Nights was still basically an Isometric view, but with several differences. Although still using an older graphics engine they did a better job of simulating 3D. Also, the "drive mode" feature where the camera followed the player along with the ability to zoom in and out and change your angle made the interface much more attractive in my opinion. It took me a lot longer to get used to Baldur's Gate, but I jumped right in and got hooked on NWN1. Considering how cheap you can still pick up the combo sets that include several of the expansions I highly recommend it.