Folks, hi,

I've been following the Adventure Game Help forum with great interest over the past week, since I completed The Lost Crown myself and wrote a review:

http://www.quandaryland.com/jsp/dispArticle.jsp?index=833

and walkthrough:

http://www.spyglassguides.com/

The Lost Crown is quite a difficult game if you're not methodical, because Jonathan has designed it (rightly or wrongly, it's his game) in a way that if you don't do the following things in each location/time frame:

1. Exhaust all conversation topics
2. Examine *everything* that exhibits a magnifying glass icon
3. Solve all the puzzles

then he won't let you leave that location or time frame. So what I'm seeing repeatedly in the Help forum is this:

1. Help! I'm at location X in Day/Night Y and I've done everything I'm supposed to do but the game won't let me leave!
2. GameBoomers rope in with ideas of what the person may have neglected to do, which is pretty futile. Only close examination of a walkthrough is going to tell the person what they may have missed!
3. Person asks for saved game (which to me ruins the whole experience of playing an adventure game in the first place. A saved game should only be requested, IMO, if you can't get past either a bug or an unreasonable arcade sequence. Not just because you've missed something. But maybe that's a subject for another topic ;-)
4. Rinse and repeat

So... is The Lost Crown just too tough for adventure game newbies?

Regards,
MetzO'Magic

I thought it was one of the easiest games in a while and did not find a walkthrough necessary. Everything was very keenly laid out and it flowed beautifully. There was only a couple times I was tripped up and took a bit to see what I should do.

Ana

Its a lovely game, newbies would adore it. I did lots of vague wandering but the game is so wonderful that wandering was a pleasure.

I thought it was pretty easy and straight forward too. Didn't need a walkthrough, except for the sound puzzles which I didn't even attempt. I really liked the fact that you couldn't leave an area until you had done everyhting that need to be done. Saved a lot of silly wandering around! I think it would be a great game for a newbie!

With due respect, Ana, I think you could hardly call yourself an adventure game 'newbie' (not with almost 29,000 posts in these forums )

My question more pertains to those just starting out in the genre, like having played maybe 10 adventure games or less.

Regards,
MetzO'Magic

Maybe we need input from someone who has played Lost Crown and not many other adventure games. Is there someone here who has only played a handful of adventures, with Lost Crown among them? If so, we'd love to hear your input.

Metzo -- the posts in Hints have to be weighed by how many people are playing the game. If 50 Gameboomers are playing a game and 30 of them post because they are having these problems, that would mean that the game is more difficult than if 3,000 GameBoomers are playing the game and 30 of them post about the difficulties. There are a lot of people playing this game now. So it's really hard to judge because we don't know the overall numbers. (Does this make sense?)

Perfect sense Becky.
I can't claim to be the person who has only played a few games, however, I think, that with the help of the w/t when needed, the lost crown would be an excellent first game. The story line is so strong, that, like a good novel you would not want to put it away unfinished. It is also very logical and the hints are in the game.
Playing this with the help of the w/t would help you understand the way adventure games are played and to get into the mind-set of the deveopers.
The only problem is that it might spoil you for follow up games

I don't think it's too "difficult" puzzlewise.
But it does require you to be methodical and thorough -- moreso than most other games. And it's possible to miss things, even with a walkthrough, unless you're very careful. Using the walkthrough only "when needed" is a good way to get stuck, unless you're willing to go back and redo a lot to find that one hotspot you missed clicking on.


You can understand why people do this though. They don't have the patience to go back and replay so much of the game. And even if they do have the patience, how can they be sure they aren't stuck because of a bug? I wouldn't say Lost Crown is an "easy" game for newbies, though experienced players may find it easy.

Hi

I haven't even started the game myself yet and definitely can't be called an "adventure newbie" but what I would say is that when I WAS an "adventure newbie" I found "linear" games to be rather a good thing .... for me, anyway.

Because when I couldn't leave an area I knew it was because I hadn't found everything or completed everything. So I knew I had to go over the ground again - and possibly again !!

Of course not having played the game yet I'm not aware of how difficult it might be in this case to find/complete everything in a given area

Cheers.

Mad

Hi, metzomagic

You make a good point,but when I was a newbie many moons ago...I would of found this game very easy.. "Why" because you are not allowed to leave a certain area until you found all the clues..

That to me can't get any easier !!!

Hey Metzomagic

I think the Lost Crown it is not a difficult game, you not need of walktrhough for playing the game.The most important is complete everything in all area and to have attention..but the puzzles they are easy.For experience players is a easy game.

Love Maria

Boomers, hi again,

Wow, that was a quick response. Becky said:



Yes, it does. I was estimating that maybe 100 or so Boomers are currently playing this game, and that the pleas for help were quite frequent, all considered.

old lady said:



Well said

Jenny said (regarding requests for saved games):



I think it's evident that people are getting less and less patient now that we have all these fantastic web resources to hand. And that's my main point: why would you ask for a saved game to get you by a *puzzle*?! (Still Life spider bot quick reflexes required type puzzles aside, of course) OK, so you're absolutely stumped why you can't...



...so I think the whole 'impatience' bit is ruining the adventure game experience.

Thanks for the feedback,
MetzO'Magic

You have to remember that the most impatient gamers are those who wouldn't be playing the games at all otherwise. And it isn't simply a matter of existing gamers getting less and less patient. It's also a matter of more people becoming adventure gamers, and those new gamers being more easily frustrated, thinking they're doing something wrong, etc. It's also a matter of established gamers having less gaming time than they used to -- and not being willing to spend more than a certain amount of time on one puzzle (especially if they don't like that type of puzzle).

Hi,
I'm not a newbie, but I still have (not finished yet) had to revert to the walk through and still, with help spent time looking for things, so it's not an impossible game just tricky. No sliders Yet, or mazes, but I have spent a lot of time wandering around.
Charllotte

I didn't find it a difficult game to play. Sometimes I prefer games where you can't leave an area until it's completed. I always find it a bit strange when I "discover" something and the character knows what it is or what it's for, but shouldn't, because I've missed something else.

If there's a difficulty it's that the story is quite complex. There's another fascinating thread here somewhere with speculations about hidden meanings and references, a lot of which I missed, which makes me want to start again. After Rhem 3 that is , so it might take some time.

I suppose one does tend to forget what it was like to be an adventure game newbie oneself all those years ago, Jenny. Thanks for reminding me

Cheers,
MetzO'Magic

Hey!!!

Everybody has a different reason for consulting a walkthrough or not doing so. I am partially disabled and if I consult a walkthrough what difference does it make to anyone else? I play these games for my enjoyment. Frankly I don't care what judgment anyone else makes. I'm having a good time. Love, Teddo

Teddo, hi,

No one here is criticising anyone for using a walkthrough (in fact, I'm a veteran walkthrough writer. I *want* people to consult my walkthroughs when they get stuck), so sorry if you took this thread the wrong way.

In fact, we're talking about The Lost Crown being not too difficult in the traditional puzzle sense, but rather picky about what things you must do in order to progress the game. Another game that I can recall being similar in this respect was Gabriel Knight 3. But that game was quite a lot harder than The Lost Crown in most aspects...

So, the question at hand is really one of this game's suitability to those new to the adventure game genre. A lot of people seem to find it heavy going

Regards,
MetzO'Magic

It seems like all the posters here agree the game was fairly easy to progress unless I am misreading.

Ana

I don't see why anyone would have all that much difficulty playing this game with or without a w/t. There is a logical progression to the game that doesn't allow you to veer far if you haven't found things that are necessary.
I think a newbie could play it with maybe a little help.

Sue

Yeah i have to agree that the game does help people a lot of what they need to do, whether they have forgotten something. When i was in the museum it wouldn't allow me to leave or when i had to do something in the cottage it kept telling me "i should investigate further before going to sleep". Or when i had to go somewhere and i was in the open and changed location it kept saying something like "I should go to XXX to do this YYY". Or when trying to detect activity and it found something it kept saying "I should try something else", or when something was recorded it said "I should listen to the recording". The clues of the puzzles were in front of you, you just had to relate each clue with each puzzle. I played this game without a walkthrough and found it relatively easy, what i had to do was to use my brain.

Spyros

The game itself helped me when i was stuck... You can't do many things if you haven't done some others.
I agree with you butcher about not letting you leave the museum and the church was a great help. I could wondering for hours...
It isn't hard at all for newbies