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Dracula Origin Installation problem #340647
06/07/08 09:22 AM
06/07/08 09:22 AM
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 401
Boca Raton, Florida
Bevlee Offline OP
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Bevlee  Offline OP
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Posts: 401
Boca Raton, Florida
I just received this game yesterday, and I am having a problem installing it. The first disc installs with no problem, but when I am asked to insert disc 2 it will go only a little ways and then my computer freezes. Can you help me? My computer meets all the recommended requirements for this game. Bevlee

ystem Information
------------------
Time of this report: 6/7/2008, 10:13:12
Machine name: BEVERLY
Operating System: Windows XP Home Edition (5.1, Build 2600) Service Pack 2 (2600.xpsp_sp2_gdr.070227-2254)
Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
System Manufacturer: Dell Computer Corporation
System Model: Dimension 4600i
BIOS: Phoenix ROM BIOS PLUS Version 1.10 A10
Processor: Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.80GHz
Memory: 510MB RAM
Page File: 329MB used, 918MB available
Windows Dir: C:\WINDOWS
DirectX Version: DirectX 9.0c (4.09.0000.0904)
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
DxDiag Version: 5.03.2600.2180 32bit Unicode

------------
DxDiag Notes
------------
DirectX Files Tab: No problems found.
Display Tab 1: No problems found.
Sound Tab 1: No problems found.
Music Tab: No problems found.
Input Tab: No problems found.
Network Tab: No problems found.

--------------------
DirectX Debug Levels
--------------------
Direct3D: 0/4 (n/a)
DirectDraw: 0/4 (retail)
DirectInput: 0/5 (n/a)
DirectMusic: 0/5 (n/a)
DirectPlay: 0/9 (retail)
DirectSound: 0/5 (retail)
DirectShow: 0/6 (retail)

---------------
Display Devices
---------------
Card name: RADEON 9800 SERIES
Manufacturer: ATI Technologies Inc.
Chip type: ATI Radeon Graphics Processor AGP (0x4E48)
DAC type: Internal DAC(400MHz)
Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4E48&SUBSYS_10021002&REV_00
Display Memory: 128.0 MB
Current Mode: 800 x 600 (32 bit) (60Hz)
Monitor: Plug and Play Monitor
Monitor Max Res: 1600,1200
Driver Name: ati2dvag.dll
Driver Version: 6.14.0010.6727 (English)
DDI Version: 9 (or higher)
Driver Attributes: Final Retail
Driver Date/Size: 9/28/2007 23:06:17, 268800 bytes
WHQL Logo'd: Yes
WHQL Date Stamp: n/a
VDD: n/a
Mini VDD: ati2mtag.sys
Mini VDD Date: 9/28/2007 23:05:59, 2456064 bytes
Device Identifier: {D7B71EE2-0D08-11CF-F569-0830A1C2CB35}
Vendor ID: 0x1002
Device ID: 0x4E48
SubSys ID: 0x10021002
Revision ID: 0x0000
Revision ID: 0x0000
Video Accel: ModeMPEG2_C ModeMPEG2_D ModeWMV8_B ModeWMV8_A ModeWMV9_B ModeWMV9_A
Deinterlace Caps: {6E8329FF-B642-418B-BCF0-BCB6591E255F}: Format(In/Out)=(YUY2,YUY2) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,1) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_PixelAdaptive
{335AA36E-7884-43A4-9C91-7F87FAF3E37E}: Format(In/Out)=(YUY2,YUY2) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_BOBVerticalStretch
{3C5323C1-6FB7-44F5-9081-056BF2EE449D}: Format(In/Out)=(NV12,0x3231564e) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,2) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_PixelAdaptive
{552C0DAD-CCBC-420B-83C8-74943CF9F1A6}: Format(In/Out)=(NV12,0x3231564e) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,2) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_PixelAdaptive
{6E8329FF-B642-418B-BCF0-BCB6591E255F}: Format(In/Out)=(NV12,0x3231564e) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,1) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_PixelAdaptive
{335AA36E-7884-43A4-9C91-7F87FAF3E37E}: Format(In/Out)=(NV12,0x3231564e) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_BOBVerticalStretch
Registry: OK
DDraw Status: Enabled
D3D Status: Enabled
AGP Status: Enabled
DDraw Test Result: Not run
D3D7 Test Result: Not run
D3D8 Test Result: Not run
D3D9 Test Result: Not run

-------------
Sound Devices
-------------
Description: Creative SB Live! Series
Default Sound Playback: Yes
Default Voice Playback: Yes
Hardware ID: PCI\VEN_1102&DEV_0006&SUBSYS_10031102&REV_00
Manufacturer ID: 1
Product ID: 100
Type: WDM
Driver Name: P16X.sys
Driver Version: 5.12.0001.0129 (English)
Driver Attributes: Final Retail
WHQL Logo'd: Yes
Date and Size: 8/14/2003 11:58:12, 1296384 bytes
Other Files:
Driver Provider: Creative Technology Ltd.
HW Accel Level: Standard
Cap Flags: 0xF5F
Min/Max Sample Rate: 8000, 96000
Static/Strm HW Mix Bufs: 64, 63
Static/Strm HW 3D Bufs: 64, 63
HW Memory: 0
Voice Management: No
EAX(tm) 2.0 Listen/Src: No, No
I3DL2(tm) Listen/Src: No, No
Sensaura(tm) ZoomFX(tm): No
Registry: OK
Sound Test Result: Not run

---------------------
Sound Capture Devices
---------------------
Description: Creative SB Live! Series
Default Sound Capture: Yes
Default Voice Capture: Yes
Driver Name: P16X.sys
Driver Version: 5.12.0001.0129 (English)
Driver Attributes: Final Retail
Date and Size: 8/14/2003 11:58:12, 1296384 bytes
Cap Flags: 0x41
Format Flags: 0xFFF

-----------
DirectMusic
-----------
DLS Path: C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\drivers\GM.DLS
DLS Version: 1.00.0016.0002
Acceleration: n/a
Ports: Microsoft Synthesizer, Software (Not Kernel Mode), Output, DLS, Internal, Default Port
Creative SB Live! Series, Software (Kernel Mode), Output, DLS, Internal
Microsoft MIDI Mapper [Emulated], Hardware (Not Kernel Mode), Output, No DLS, Internal
Creative SB Live! Synthesizer [Emulated], Hardware (Not Kernel Mode), Output, No DLS, Internal
Creative SB Live! External MIDI [Emulated], Hardware (Not Kernel Mode), Output, No DLS, External
Microsoft GS Wavetable SW Synth [Emulated], Hardware (Not Kernel Mode), Output, No DLS, Internal
Creative SB Live! External MIDI [Emulated], Hardware (Not Kernel Mode), Input, No DLS, External
Registry: OK
Test Result: Not run

-------------------
DirectInput Devices
-------------------
Device Name: Mouse
Attached: 1
Controller ID: n/a
Vendor/Product ID: n/a
FF Driver: n/a

Device Name: Keyboard
Attached: 1
Controller ID: n/a
Vendor/Product ID: n/a
FF Driver: n/a

Poll w/ Interrupt: No
Registry: OK

-----------
USB Devices
-----------
+ USB Root Hub
| Vendor/Product ID: 0x8086, 0x24D2
| Matching Device ID: usb\root_hub
| Service: usbhub
| Driver: usbhub.sys, 8/4/2004 02:08:42, 57600 bytes
| Driver: usbd.sys, 8/29/2002 06:00:00, 4736 bytes

----------------
Gameport Devices
----------------
+ Intel(R) 82801EB PCI Bridge - 244E
| Location: PCI bus 0, device 30, function 0
| Matching Device ID: pci\ven_8086&dev_244e
| Service: pci
| Driver: pci.sys, 8/4/2004 02:07:46, 68224 bytes
|
+-+ Game Port for SB Live! Series
| | Location: PCI bus 2, device 2, function 1
| | Matching Device ID: pci\ven_1102&dev_7004&subsys_10031102
| | Service: gameenum
| | Driver: gameenum.sys, 8/4/2004 02:08:21, 10624 bytes

------------
PS/2 Devices
------------
+ Standard 101/102-Key or Microsoft Natural PS/2 Keyboard
| Matching Device ID: *pnp0303
| Service: i8042prt
| Driver: i8042prt.sys, 8/4/2004 02:14:36, 52736 bytes
| Driver: kbdclass.sys, 8/4/2004 01:58:32, 24576 bytes
|
+ Terminal Server Keyboard Driver
| Matching Device ID: root\rdp_kbd
| Upper Filters: kbdclass
| Service: TermDD
| Driver: termdd.sys, 8/4/2004 04:01:07, 40840 bytes
| Driver: kbdclass.sys, 8/4/2004 01:58:32, 24576 bytes
|
+ PS/2 Compatible Mouse
| Matching Device ID: *pnp0f13
| Service: i8042prt
| Driver: i8042prt.sys, 8/4/2004 02:14:36, 52736 bytes
| Driver: mouclass.sys, 8/4/2004 01:58:32, 23040 bytes
|
+ Terminal Server Mouse Driver
| Matching Device ID: root\rdp_mou
| Upper Filters: mouclass
| Service: TermDD
| Driver: termdd.sys, 8/4/2004 04:01:07, 40840 bytes
| Driver: mouclass.sys, 8/4/2004 01:58:32, 23040 bytes

----------------------------
DirectPlay Service Providers
----------------------------
DirectPlay8 Modem Service Provider - Registry: OK, File: dpnet.dll (5.03.2600.2180)
DirectPlay8 Serial Service Provider - Registry: OK, File: dpnet.dll (5.03.2600.2180)
DirectPlay8 IPX Service Provider - Registry: OK, File: d


Dont' walk in front of me,
I may not follow.
Don't walk behind me,
I may not lead.
Walk beside me and be my friend. (Albert Camus)
Re: Dracula Origin Installation problem [Re: Bevlee] #340659
06/07/08 09:54 AM
06/07/08 09:54 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,849
Michigan
Geo Offline
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Looks like you do not have enough ram. Game requires a minimum of 512 and you are right on the edge.

Re: Dracula Origin Installation problem [Re: Geo] #341399
06/08/08 02:03 PM
06/08/08 02:03 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,617
Denmark, Europe
Karsten Offline
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Karsten  Offline
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@bevlee

Do you use windows firewall or another firewall. I had problems installing 'sherlock holmes vs arsene lupin' (nemesis in the US) that I had to temporarily disable my windows firewall and my zonealarm firewall to get this game (also from Frogware) to install properly.

Another thing you could try is to make sure when you change cds in your dvd-drive that the cd1 has spun all the way down (i.e. does not make any sounds) before you take it out of the drive. When you then insert Disc 2 in your dvd-drive you need to make sure it spins up i.e. make sure that this disc has stopped spinning in the drive before clicking OK. I had to do this several years ago when I installed Baldur's Gate 1 - advice from Bioware's technicians on their forums helped me install Baldur's Gate 1...

Some computer won't let you install games unless your dvd-drive is the default D:/ one.

As for not enough RAM? In my experience, this shouldn't mean that you can't install the game, just that you can't play the game that well. I agree, however, with GEO that another 512 or 1 GB of RAM would be a good thing...



Adventure gaming is fun smile

Re: Dracula Origin Installation problem [Re: Karsten] #341700
06/09/08 08:05 AM
06/09/08 08:05 AM
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 401
Boca Raton, Florida
Bevlee Offline OP
Settled Boomer
Bevlee  Offline OP
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Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 401
Boca Raton, Florida
Thanks for all the help! I think I will install more RAM. But---I will have to wait for my grandson to come and visit and do it for me as I am not that computer litterate. Sooooooo Dracula origin will just have to wait to be installed, and played. Beverly in Florida.


Dont' walk in front of me,
I may not follow.
Don't walk behind me,
I may not lead.
Walk beside me and be my friend. (Albert Camus)
Re: Dracula Origin Installation problem [Re: Karsten] #342863
06/11/08 10:26 AM
06/11/08 10:26 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 46
D
deb in buffalo Offline
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D

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 46
i think i will try that because 3rd disk will not install the messeg i get is Seyup could not find a file on the specified path or disk, Please check that the proper disk is inserted or specify anew path and the ram in my pc is 1258 so ram is not the problemi emailed dreamcather but hav not heard from them

Re: Dracula Origin Installation problem [Re: deb in buffalo] #343256
06/12/08 04:54 AM
06/12/08 04:54 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,849
Michigan
Geo Offline
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Wipe disk 3 with a soft towel.Insert disk 3.
Click on My Computer
Right click on D:Drive or drive disk is in.
Click Open Or explore and see whats on the disk.
If there is a file on the disk double click on it and see if it will install this way.If it does you may want to run a cleaning disk through the drive.
If there is nothing on the disk,you have a blank disk.Highly unlikely.

Last edited by Geo; 06/12/08 09:35 PM.
Re: Dracula Origin Installation problem [Re: Bevlee] #343303
06/12/08 07:14 AM
06/12/08 07:14 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 411
nyc
R
robedits Offline
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R

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nyc
I have the 3-CD version,just got yesterday in the mail. Have a somewhat-new rig that more than exceeds the specs needed.
I ALSO got several windows error messages when installing,beginning with disc 2.
But I chose to ignore them,and the install continued. Same error messages with disc 3...but the game finished installing and is playing fine,although the shortcut placed on my desktop has no game-picture icon in it...just a blank/generic shortcut link.
My Pc is always clean,defragged,and virus free...and Norton AV is always running. I would never in my LIFE disable (even temporarily) any windows firewalls or Norton to install or play a game. Nowadays,you absolutely open yourself up to viruses and computer-ruin by doing so!!!
Also,I always have the latest ATI A/V drivers installed and windows Xp SP 2 is always updated with latest windows stuff.
Therefore,I think the programming/installation code for this game was faulty...especially in light of the fact thatmdespite the wierd messages I got while installing...the game wound up finishing install and playing just fine!
By the way,it is a stunningly beaufitul game! great environments,great music,great story,and good puzzles so far.LOVING it!

Re: Dracula Origin Installation problem [Re: robedits] #343328
06/12/08 07:51 AM
06/12/08 07:51 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,013
Sunny Devon, United Kingdom
Upsydaisy Offline
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Sunny Devon, United Kingdom
I also had an odd shortcut picture on my desktop. I had the blank/generic link at first but when I re-booted I had the same picture as Sherlock Holmes-mystery of the persian carpet!! rotfl what's going on, Watson?

BTW have Vista, Dracula installed and runs without any problems.

______________
Currently playing: Dracula

Re: Dracula Origin Installation problem [Re: Geo] #343479
06/12/08 12:01 PM
06/12/08 12:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 46
D
deb in buffalo Offline
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deb in buffalo  Offline
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D

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 46
i am running xp over 1200 ram i did check the D: Drive and clicked open and explore and no file so either i am crazy or the disk is blank

Re: Dracula Origin Installation problem [Re: deb in buffalo] #343701
06/12/08 07:38 PM
06/12/08 07:38 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,849
Michigan
Geo Offline
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Geo  Offline
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Holy smoke Debin Bufflalo that is really strange.It seems to me if you clicked "open" and it is BLANK??? I would say you have a blank disk.I want you to double check with Jenny100 or someone else smarter than me,but it sounds like its blank.That would be really strange.There are no folders there that say "sound" or "video" or "install" or anything?Wow weird.Maybe we are both crazy.
-----------------------------------
Edit:This was assuming your drive was "D".

Last edited by Geo; 06/12/08 09:34 PM.
Re: Dracula Origin Installation problem [Re: Geo] #343717
06/12/08 08:38 PM
06/12/08 08:38 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,263
Arizona
InlandAZ Offline
BAAG Specialist
InlandAZ  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,263
Arizona
This really sounds like a bad CD - but... Can you check your firmware version?

Click Start, Run and enter MSINFO32, then click OK. Under the System Summary you'll see a key named Components - expand it (click the +) and highlight CD-ROM. On the right hand pane, highlight the PNP DeviceID value (left click) and press CNTL+V (or edit copy)...

Paste the content in a post (it will look similar to the following)
Code:
PNP Device ID	IDE\CDROMMATSHITA_BD-MLT_UJ-210S_________________1.05____\4156353420203130393232322020202020202020


Re: Dracula Origin Installation problem [Re: InlandAZ] #343782
06/12/08 11:38 PM
06/12/08 11:38 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 46
D
deb in buffalo Offline
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deb in buffalo  Offline
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D

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 46
IDE\CDROMTSSTCORP_CDRW/DVD-TSL462C DEO1 /5&2C7C

yes i think i am nuts i also think the picture on the front is very good looking

Re: Dracula Origin Installation problem [Re: deb in buffalo] #343802
06/13/08 01:04 AM
06/13/08 01:04 AM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,263
Arizona
InlandAZ Offline
BAAG Specialist
InlandAZ  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,263
Arizona
The actual string I'm looking for follows a --- L o n g --- string of underscores BD-MLT_UJ-210S_________________1.05 the 1.05 in my case... I'd have to guess that yours is the DE01 value. Because it's a Dell, it's best to check their site, I believe they require specific OEM firmware (I could be wrong, but a bad flash will toast the drive -- not a good thing).

Peruse to: Dell Support enter your tag number and see if they have a firmware update for your drive.

Samsung has a DE08 version that improves media compatibility
- but check out dell first...

Edit -

There's a program you can download that may make it eaiser to identify your firmware version - DISCInfo (see below)

DISCInfo Download

Last edited by InlandAZ; 06/13/08 01:21 AM.
Re: Dracula Origin Installation problem [Re: InlandAZ] #343827
06/13/08 05:17 AM
06/13/08 05:17 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,849
Michigan
Geo Offline
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With all due respect InlandAZ the drive loaded the first 2 disks so wouldnt you assume the drive is ok and its probably the disk?

Re: Dracula Origin Installation problem [Re: Geo] #343979
06/13/08 10:47 AM
06/13/08 10:47 AM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,263
Arizona
InlandAZ Offline
BAAG Specialist
InlandAZ  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,263
Arizona
Originally Posted By: Geo
With all due respect InlandAZ the drive loaded the first 2 disks so wouldnt you assume the drive is ok and its probably the disk?

I do Geo, the firmware idea was a long shot. In all probability the CD is bad, but it never hurts to look.


Last edited by InlandAZ; 06/13/08 10:48 AM.
Re: Dracula Origin Installation problem [Re: InlandAZ] #344112
06/13/08 02:52 PM
06/13/08 02:52 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,013
Sunny Devon, United Kingdom
Upsydaisy Offline
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My previous computer was a Dell with XP. Had the same problems with installing certain games. The 1st disc would install fine, any others would go unrecognised.
Tried an external DVD drive which sometimes worked. But after some good advice here on GB's, I copied all the game files onto my hard drive and installed from there. Cured the problem for ever. wave

Re: Dracula Origin Installation problem [Re: InlandAZ] #344243
06/13/08 08:27 PM
06/13/08 08:27 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 46
D
deb in buffalo Offline
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deb in buffalo  Offline
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D

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Posts: 46
well i have to send either the whole game to were i got it from or just send the disk and $8.00 for shipping and handling to dreamcather and they will replace the disk so i am going to be doing that tommorrow after i get the money order and the stamps. so then i will have to waite for the disk to come back. thank you all for your help can not waite the new dik

Re: Dracula Origin Installation problem [Re: deb in buffalo] #344265
06/13/08 08:51 PM
06/13/08 08:51 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,263
Arizona
InlandAZ Offline
BAAG Specialist
InlandAZ  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,263
Arizona
If it's any consolation I had the same issue with Atlantis Evolution. I picked it up fairly cheap, but after I added in the replacement costs it was just about on par with a brick and mortar store.

Re: Dracula Origin Installation problem [Re: Upsydaisy] #344382
06/14/08 03:03 AM
06/14/08 03:03 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 46
D
deb in buffalo Offline
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deb in buffalo  Offline
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D

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Posts: 46
i have tryed alot of things to get this to work and it is not i have gotten alot of game for fact my kids are grown and gone so i play pc games i will play them till i beat them this one will be very good i think i got it new so it will coast me $8.00 to get the disk replaced on top of the price of the game but what can you do

Re: Dracula Origin Installation problem [Re: deb in buffalo] #344645
06/14/08 01:26 PM
06/14/08 01:26 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 7,727
The Country
Winfrey Offline
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Winfrey  Offline
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The Country
do you have any software on your computer- like Roxio-- or Sonic? it has a tools option if you put the disc in--go into their tools and identify- it will identify what is or is not on it--- just another option to make sure nothing is on the disc--


Would that I could be the peacemaker in your soul that I might turn the discord and the rivalry of your elements into oneness and melody
Gibran
Re: Dracula Origin Installation problem [Re: Winfrey] #344714
06/14/08 03:39 PM
06/14/08 03:39 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 40,644
southeast USA
Jenny100 Offline
GB Reviewer Glitches Moderator
Jenny100  Offline
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Sonic Boomer

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 40,644
southeast USA
There is a single compressed .cab file on CD3.
Check your PM.

Re: Dracula Origin Installation problem [Re: Bevlee] #344899
06/14/08 09:31 PM
06/14/08 09:31 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 94
NH, Strafford
Paul Offline
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Paul  Offline
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I have a brand new HP PC, 3072 MB system memory, 500GB Hard drive....I downloaded the demo of Dracula, Origin...I have no sound at all...I know my sound is on....anyone else maybe had this problem?...
tks
Paul

Re: Dracula Origin Installation problem [Re: Paul] #344970
06/15/08 01:41 AM
06/15/08 01:41 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 40,644
southeast USA
Jenny100 Offline
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Jenny100  Offline
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Posts: 40,644
southeast USA
What sound card do you have?
This game installs a version of DirectX 9.0c that contains files previous versions of DirectX 9.0c did not have (despite the fact that they're all called DirectX 9.0c). It may be that you need to have the DirectX 9.0c that comes with the game to get the sound.

Re: Dracula Origin Installation problem [Re: Bevlee] #345441
06/15/08 09:14 PM
06/15/08 09:14 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 94
NH, Strafford
Paul Offline
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Paul  Offline
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NH, Strafford
Ya know what Jenny100, I believe that when the install asked me if I wanted to install DirectX 9.0 I said no because I thought I already had DirectX 10 on my computer....think I will go back and try it again.
tks
Paul

Re: Dracula Origin Installation problem [Re: Jenny100] #345957
06/16/08 08:13 PM
06/16/08 08:13 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 46
D
deb in buffalo Offline
Shy Boomer
deb in buffalo  Offline
Shy Boomer
D

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 46
what is PM?

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