With so many games coming out...So many opinions on what is what..

I would like to know your opinion on Just What Is An "Adventure Game"? And What Is a Puzzle game?

Myst & Rheem to me are Puzzle games not Adventure Games..Safe cracker is another one..I am sure there are many more...But some developers are listing their games as "Adventure" When they are truly not..

It tends to get very confusing...

I hate to disagree but Myst and Rhem are absolutely full fledged adventure games. While you may not like mechanical puzzles as opposed to inventory puzzles that does not make it a non adventure.

Perhaps the definition here may help you.

Ana

Here's where I disagree..there is no interaction in the game play of Myst..

You just solve puzzles..That to me is not an Adventure Game

What do you mean by "interaction" ??

You are usually interacting when you solve puzzles

Talking to people...Following a path..where someone says.. "Example" "You must follow this path"

Darleen -- do you mean that an adventure game has to have dialog trees (where you click to interact with a character)?

There's interaction with the gameworld in the Myst games, and the characters do talk to you, often through video segments (though you don't respond to them with words). There are also diary entries that tell the story, and/or let you know what the characters were thinking.

Just saw your post -- when Atrus hands you a book and says you must use it to capture Gehn -- that wouldn't count?

But speaking to other characters is only one form of interaction, as Wikipedia explains :

"Interaction is a kind of action that occurs as two or more objects have an effect upon one another. The idea of a two-way effect is essential in the concept of interaction, as opposed to a one-way causal effect. A closely related term is interconnectivity, which deals with the interactions of interactions within systems: combinations of many simple interactions can lead to surprising emergent phenomena. Interaction has different tailored meanings in various sciences. All systems are related and interdependent. Every action has a consequence."

Yes, Becky..Dialogue trees is what I mean...Not videos..

Mad...What made you come to the conclusion that "Heaven" was not an "Adventure Game" ?

Heaven did not have a storyline as such - which is a must for me in an adventure game - and I felt I was visiting the game rather than participating in it a lot of the time

That does suit many people. It just doesn't suit me

Tossing all games without dialog trees out of the genre? Woa. So no Scratches, Dark Fall, Barrow Hill, Amerzone, Riddle of the Sphinx? Or am I misremembering and they had dialog trees?

Becky..Good point ..

But you can't compare them to a full fledged mechanical puzzle game like Rhem..

In scratches you talked on the phone..You even talked to yourself

Darleen, you are confusing preferences vs. actual. They are all adventure games, that is a fact. You may prefer one with people interaction, just as some prefer 1st over 3rd person, but that does not change the fact that they are all adventure games.

Thanks, Mad...

I will add "No Story" to my list of what is NOT an Adventure Game

Myst is one of the best virtual *adventures* I personally had...

Adventure? What adventure? What plot? What interaction? Myst is a pure puzzle game.

Hi Darleen03,
To answer your question about my opinion on what is an adventure game and not to get into a debate about it, I totally agree with your opinion that Myst is not an adventure game. It never will be for me no matter what *they* say!
Yes, one interacts with the puzzles but that doesn't make an adventure out of it, but rather a puzzle game. If a gamer plays adventure games for the puzzles than by definition aren't they more interesd in puzzle games than adventure games?
So maybe they should be looking for puzzle games and leave adventuring to those who enjoy the fun of being a kleptomaniac and wondering how the inventory will come in handy somewhere, rather than trying to figure out what this switch will do over in another location to change whatever? I want to help someone so they can help me in return, not go wandering around trying to get some water system to work to solve some puzzle.

This is an awful long thread on a discussion about when is an adventure game not an adventure game. I prefer the fantasy, mystery type adventures over the, (for lack of a better term) Myst clones myself but it's in the eye of the beholder.

As long as there is exploration and graphic movement etc then it is not just a puzzle game.

So when is an adventure game not an adventure game? When I have to perform combat or acrobatics of some type to finish my quest (except for few hybrids that have also been called adventures)

This from one who still remembers playing text adventures but who can't remember the names of them.

Pandoras box is a puzzal game but also a story so I would say adventure .If there is no story to it and just puzzals then its a puzzal game in my eyes .Thats how I see it any way .If there is fighting in the game it is action adventure in my eyes .

Oooh, I love those discussions. I believe that people will never be able to agree on one definition.

For me Myst clones are very much adventure games.

But also Alone in The Dark or Redguard are adventure games because of the typical adventure game like situations and storytelling in them. I don't believe action elements make a game not an adventure game.

Action adventure games are what most game journalists call Tomb Rider clones - pure action titles in 3D and third person perspective. The term "action adventure" was born some time after Tomb Rider 1 was released as far as I know - it's just a bit older than the term "casual games".

You obviously didn't play the series, if you believe there's no plot in myst.
It's so narrow-minded to limit adventures only to walking characters with dialouge branches and inventory.
I personally adore Myst series for it's creation of one of the most immersive worlds I have ever gamed through, and this makes it more adventure-like than many other games.
To call it a "puzzle-game" is to diminish it to a series of random puzzles, while it's so much the opposite. The series is known for it's puzzles integration with the plot and story.
The plot is very very deep and branching. However, it does require a lot of reading and thinking, as oppose to characters telling you everything.
It's a different feel than most adventures, that's right, but to call it a puzzle game is ignorant. I accept obviously people not liking it for their own reasons, but let's not turn it to something it's not.

"An adventure game is a video game in which the player assumes the role of protagonist in an interactive story that is driven by exploration and puzzle-solving instead of physical challenges such as combat.[1] The term originates from the 1970s computer game Adventure[2][3] and relates to the style of gameplay pioneered in that game, rather than the kind of story being told.[1]"

This, from Wikipedia, is the description I have always held to as the true one

This is a nice definition because pretty much all kinds of adventure games fall under it. The problems start when puzzles in a game have some physical challenge aspect to them. How can you tell if it is the physical challenge or the puzzles that drive the story in such situations?

World of Goo falls under this definition, but I don't believe it's an adventure game. I'm of the opinion that an adventure game can't repeat the same mechanics in multiple puzzles - behind each puzzle must be some entirely different concept.

Yeah, the Myst series more or less defined the first-person point-and-click adventure, so excluding it from the genre altogether is a little much. The setting really is quite rich and detailed (enough for them to write three novels on it, at least), though as pointed out it's mainly relayed through various in-game books and in cutscenes. Not everyone's preferred method of delivery, but given the prevalent "power of the imagination/written word" theme, it's fair to assume you'll be doing plenty of reading.

There are dialogue-driven adventures and puzzle-focused ones; whether you're pulling levers or playing MacGyver, the basic concepts are still the same.

The strongest contender for "is it an adventure game?" for me would be the In Memoriam series (or Missing: Since January, Evidence: The Last Ritual). They have the compelling, meticulously detailed and researched story of an adventure game, but the actual game itself consists solely of scouring the 'net to solve abstract puzzles. Same with Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy (and its upcoming sequel, Heavy Rain): there's a strong emphasis on character and plot, but with a completely nonstandard control scheme and interface. Die-hard traditionalists will be quick to call it an "action-adventure" or some such, as there are "physical" sequences of sorts, yet the focus remains squarely on the story.

Hi Ascovel

I truly think the Wikipedia definition is about as good as you will get for the description of an adventure game

Obviously there are going to be instances where a person will say this or that game doesn't fit with what Wikipedia say. But what description in such a diverse field can be absolutely "all encompassing" ??

My thoughts regarding the specific point you make are that that it is the puzzle that drives the story and that whether or not you can meet the physical challenge required to complete the puzzle is a totally different issue

I am personally very happy with the Wikipedia definition because I feel it fits exactly what the adventure genre is intended to be cover

Cheers.

Mad

Hmm, I've heard of Myst-clones, but never any King's Quest-clones, or Space Quest-clones so that tells me something: There is a difference between Myst and adventure! Wikipedia mentions Myst as being "atypical" which means that it is not a "typical adventure" so there is a difference and it is that difference which is part of the debate of whether it is an adventure game or not. I say NOT, but that's my take on what I like or don't like in the games I play.