Is it adventure or action/adventure

At what point does an adventure game become an action/adventure game for you?

Give examples of games that fall on both sides of your boundary line.

Ooooh. Good question. This one will take some thought.

Timed puzzles! I'm a purist!!!!

Examples?
Are you saying Myst is an action/adventure because of the Channelwood elevator?
What about the Gabriel Knight games? All had timed sequences. Are they all action/adventures then?

This is the kind of thing I'm getting at.
Where do you draw the line?

The Harry Potter games and Arabian Nights are action/adventure in my book. I play them and often wish I could get further than I do, but I'm a real geek when it comes to combat and quite frankly I stink at it.

Timed sequences are usually annoying to me and usually I don't see the point of them in most adventure games but if there's only a few I guess they are still (loosely) adventure.

Where to draw the line? Well, I wish there were none in an adventure game at all, but I am starting lately to read the reviews looking for action/timed sequences and not rushing out to buy games that contain more than a couple of them.

happy trails,

Carolyn

The way I class a game to be action/adventure is any game where I have to fight using more than one click of the mouse, to defeat my enemy, and have to fight most of the way through it.

I'm not explaining this very well am I? My examples are, I think the King's Quest series were adventures, up until King's Quest 8, which I would definitley call an action/adventure.

I would class the Blair Witch games as action/adventure too, even though I quite enjoyed them.

But I would class Gabriel Knight games as adventure

Sue

If I have to shoot something or avoid getting shot, or have to jump, run, etc then I don't buy that game.
Timed puzzles may not be "action" in my book, but I avoid them too.

Many games I've played had a small amount of action in them, but I would still consider them adventures. The action parts stick out like a sore thumb because I find action generally difficult and frustrating. Here's some that come to mind:
Gabriel Knight games : Having a timed action ending was stressful, and didn't seem to fit with the rest of the game. The absolute worst sequence for me was the pendulum in GK3. I spent the better part of 2 hours on that one sequence.
Tex Murphy games : Each of the ones I've played had stealth/action in them. Probably any more and I would have called them action/adventure.
Traitor's Gate : Here's another one that was borderline for me.
The Watchmaker and The Ward : Both of those had action end sequences that necessitated getting a saved game for me to finish.
Uru Chronicles: this is a true action/adventure in my book. It took me about a year to finish this. The action bits would get me so frustrated, that I would have to let the game go for a while. The only reason I persisted
was that I loved the environments (and the fact that it was a Myst game )

Action in adventure games is a very hot topic right now in some of the other gaming forums.
The problem I have with action is that it always relies on your reflexes. Many times you know what has to be done. For example in Uru, you need to jump to a rock. If you can't get the timing right, you fail. No walkthrough can help you with that task.
The other aspect of action is that it often accompanies 3D games. I guess they figure if they give you this huge environment to explore, jumping and moving things would be interesting challenges.
Lastly Action and 3D usually means keyboard control. I prefer to play point and click games.

Well, good question Jenyy100!
Personally, I feel that timed actions, as in: if you don't sneak out quick enough, or you don't move to the right spot quick enough, and it goes without saying any...any....defeating a bad guy scene...is action! I didn't consider the getting key from the track, in The Longest Journey an action thing...that was logical! So I would say, as far as timed goes...if it defeats you, in timing, it's action!
And that's my 2 cents worth!

I agree with the other opinions so far. I find it extremely frustrating and don't finish a lot of great games when I get stuck because of a timed action sequence.

GK1, Tex Murphy UAKM, Shivers 2 and a lot of other games are sitting unfinished on my computer until I finally beat them right now.

Melanie

Melanie, you leave the games unfinished in your computer? I could never do that. If I can't finish it then out it goes. More games then I like to admit were uninstalled because of my inability to get through a scene.
If I truly love the game I'll ask for a save game but not too often. I am not quick enough for action games thats for sure. Many adventure games have action in them now so I'm waiting till I read reviews or get some opinions here.

Hi, Jenny!

I'd say KQ8 and the Alone in the Dark series would be considered action/adventure games because there was combat from start to finish. There were a few action sequences in the Tex Murphy and Gabriel Knight series, but 99% of the games were adventure.

Susan

I do leave them, Doreen. I go back to them periodically to try again. If I really get frustrated I ask for a save game but since I can never wait for one to arrive and have so many unplayed games waiting that I can't wait to get into, I start new ones in between.

The only times I remove a game is when it has too much action to bother with getting saves constantly and that's the only way I can get through it, I don't like the game, or I'm doing my cleanup routine before installing something really huge and my hard drive is less than 40% empty.

Melanie

Edit: Or if I finished the game and won't be replaying for a while.

maybe we should reclassify action into 2 parts, true action ie shooting, fighting etc and skill action ie jumping etc!!

I have the same problem with URU, just can't get into the rhythm of jumping at a specific time and in a particular way... The Atlantis games have fights where you can get killed...

It's an action-adventure if I can only get through it in god mode. (Star Trek: Hidden Evil)

It's action-adventure if the movement challenges are consistently more difficult than the puzzle challenges. (The Harry Potter games)

It's action-adventure if there are level end-bosses that require repeated "hits" to defeat. (Rayman: The Great Escape)

It's action-adventure if there are frequent episodes of player-controlled combat. (Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace)

It's NOT an action adventure solely because there are timed puzzles or a handful of physical or stealth challenges. I think Broken Sword 3, Ring II, and Uru, for instance, are adventure games.

adventure games with isolated pieces of action i do not consider action adventures. sure i may need a save to get past them but that is because i have terrible reflexes and have no control with a mouse.

adventure games with action sequences include uru, wanted, broken sword 3

action adventures would be lemony snicket, arabian nights, outcast, realms of the haunting , silent hill series

That is a good way to split em!!!

I pretty much agree with Becky: it's action/adventure if the skill/timing/dexterity challenges consistently outweigh or overshadow the mental challenges. Also if your exploration of new territory seems devised simply to locate new means of blowing things up and new terrors to avoid and/or destroy. I don't relish timed activities in my adventure games, but I can deal with one or two.

I guess another thing I notice is that in what I would term adventure games it is at least theoretically possible to get through the timed or action sequence the first time, whereas action oriented games make that impossible. There's a steep learning curve and you have to practice over and over again to get the pattern/coordination etc. just right. I like to feel, when I'm playing a game, that "this is an experience I could actually have and succeed/survive." When you die over and over again just to learn the task, it destroys the reality: this is something (dying over and over) that you actually don't get to do in reality. One death is it.

Action adventure: Thorgal's Quest (EEEWWW!), Traitor's Gate. Those are the two that really, really stand out for me--the two that purported to be adventure and just weren't. Atlantis I (The lost tales) is skirting the edge, too.

WW

I take each game individually. For example, before I bought Sherlock Holmes: The Silver Earring, I read the reviews that said there were a couple really tedious timed sequences. But I like the idea of a Sherlock Holmes game (or any detective) that I bought it anyway. Then I yelled at my computer the whole time I was trying to evade that stupid dog. On the other hand, if a review mentions that there are numerous timed sequences - especially if they could result in death - forget it.

As far as fighting: If the review talks about defeating enemies, monsters, etc. - I won't buy it. I won't buy a game if the review mentions anything about weaponry. There are a few games I've played where I've used a gun, for example the Blue Dahlia when you have to shoot a gun once. But when I bought The Messenger, started to play it and realized that the game required stealth and lots of weapons - well, it's in my "sell it" pile.

As far as arcade games - well, I think that all the Nancy Drew games have some type of arcade game. But I like those games so I play them and swear a lot. I also swear at the timed sequences - especially when I can't finish the game. Every time that happens (ND: Blackmoor, for one), I tell myself I'll never by another ND game - but I will. But on the whole, I won't buy games that have arcade games - I just don't have the speed or flexibility.

Another type of game that I will not buy is any game that uses the keyboard and not the mouse. So no Grim Fandango for me. I just have a heck of a time maneuvering the characters. Then I become too frustrated and quit the game - Broken Sword 3 is a prime example. I didn't know it was keyboard only, played it up until Nico has to avoid being killed, and now it's in that pile with the Messenger.

After being disappointed so many times, now I read as many reviews of each game that I can to make sure that it is likely that I will finish the game.

tuesday next

As much as I'm not fond of timed sequences, I would not consider an adventure game with a few timed puzzles an action-adventure. Myst 4 is an adventure game.

The Feeble Files, The Space Bar, and Dracula: The Last Sanctuary are adventures with action. There are some timed bits in which you can die, but the learning curve isn't steep.

I would agree with WW that Traitor's Gate is an action-adventure, but I think it's just over the edge into action. Much of the game involves inventory collecting and exploring, but stealth with a time limit is required in several spots, and there is some (thankfully) easy shooting. Other than the online game, Pharoah's Tomb, I haven't played any other's which I would call action-adventures.

Edit: Tuesday Next,
The Messenger is a fairly easy adventure game with a couple of timed spots. Once you know what to do, the game gives you plenty of time to complete the timed sequences. (I always completed the timed sequences on my second try.) The crossbow is used mostly with the grappling hook for climbing, and the knife is used for breaking and entering. All you have to do is click the inventory items in the correct spot and anything that needs to be done is accomplished with a cut scene.

WW, are you sure of that? I wonder if on Trail's Planet they get more than one? Are they clones? Does that count? And how bout monky's--since they seem to be a whole new species (see other thread for this astounding announcement)--what is their life cycle like?

So do you think all of these games are action/adventures?

I cannot tell a lie, I shot at least a couple of guys with my crossbow. So sorry...........

happy trails,

Carolyn

Jenny100 - Maybe this is a cop-out answer but, if I play them, they're adventure; if I refuse to play them, they're action. Seriously, of the games I mentioned, I would call them adventure with minimal action - one or two timed sequences, cannot die, and I'd allow ONE arcade game. Black Dahlia is straight adventure - the one sequence where you have to shoot the bad guy is pretty much a no-brainer. Once you know where to shoot it's really easy.

But I played the first two Gabriel Knights (I could never finish the third) and I don't remember any timed sequence in the first (doesn't mean it wasn't there since I have the memory capacity of a gnat), but I remember a timed sequence at the end of the second. With that I just grabbed my WT and followed it to get me through it. In fact, if I know there are any timed sequences in a game, I'll go straight to a WT to get me through it. I know this is silly to others - but my anxiety level goes sky high when I do any type of action at all. It makes the gaming experience very unenjoyable for me. For example, ND:Blackmoor was completely ruined for me because I couldn't get the $^%& oil in the hole in the floor and couldn't finish the game (I think I played that before becoming a member of GB - otherwise I would have begged for a save).

Did that answer your question? In fact, what was the question?

In GK1 there's one time where you have to get something in an office while a person isn't looking. Later on you are chased around by evil mummies in some sort of tomb.

I do that too, not because of anxiety but because I want to get the %$@! thing over with as soon as possible.

Jenny100 said:
Indubitably!

Carolyn,
Unlike action sequences, you didn't have to be a good aim to shoot. You used the bolt like every other inventory item and just clicked in the right spot. The cut scene did the rest.

I'll admit it. I like action, but it shouldn't overshadow the puzzlin. While playin the recent Jack the Ripper game when I got the gun from Abigal I was just itchin ta pull thee trigger. To bad the game was just teasing me. ARRG! Anyhow, I think adventure games that include action should make the action completly optional as to apease both kinds of gamers. And if you love both of the genres like me this could possibly add replay ability! Hold up, me creativitys flowin! Gotta nourish it! Happy Gamin everyone!

In this case, I'll print the walkthrough before I even do the install.

Mike

I've done that too Mike. If I know there are timed sequences or I can die, I skim through the WT to see where it says "Save here" and then I highlight it with a marker so that I know that I don't have to worry about it until that point in the game. I remember doing that with the WTs (I think MaG's) for the Cameron Files games.

tuesday next

Okay, okay--you only get one as far as I KNOW. And as far as I know you don't get to re-load and start over from before you made your worst mistake! Unless reality REALLY IS like "Jonathan Livingston Seagull."

Tuesday Next et al: There's also that snake sequence in GK1. And I, also, will often just go straight to a WT (or hints) to get me through a nasty action sequence--my blood pressure just skyrockets as soon as it starts and I can't even function. Even *with* the answers I have to give over the mouse to my husband for that stuff.

You know, I didn't used to be that way! I used to play shooters, even! And lots of games with jumping from one platform to the next over a pit of fiery lava and stuff. And I guess I still could do that and maybe even enjoy it, but I just don't want that stuff in my adventure games.

WW

Generally, I agree with Becky's definition. Most action adventures make quick movement or combat a bigger part of going on than the puzzle solving.

This is even true of my beloved Zelda games, which have quite a few puzzles!

I don't have a lot of confidence with timed bits in adventure games either. Too often the controls are sloppy, the time is short, and there's no real 'training' for the moment when it comes. As a result, its actually tougher for me to get past some of these bits, than in a full-on action game!

If I havent read or heard about the challenge, my first 'warning' is often 3 seconds ahead of the 'restore' screen. This is coming from someone who plays some platformer titles, the occasional rpg, and a few of the more family-friendly action adventures.

Personally, I regard Uru:Chronicles as an adventure game with 'action' motion. You had an 'easy' area to learn how to move your character, no combat (unless you took on the cones ), and only a few 'crucial' jumps to make. Uru is about exploration, puzzling & study. I love it

Broken Sword 3 was skirting the edge of action adventure. You mostly evaded being shot, but in the end you did 'fight.' Many times I initially failed to move in the right direction or quickly/stealthily enough and poor George (or Nico) bought the farm. Only some of those were also puzzle-related. Emphasis was still on the story & puzzles in BS3 though. You still had a number of things to figure out. So while I had quite a few hair-pulling moments in it & needed a save to get past one area ~ it still felt like an adventure to me.

Susan

WW, I agree with you--I too like to play console shooters and platformers, but I don't want any of that stuff in my adventures--when I play adventures I want a whole different experience.

I know that Lady K, I just meant I was so sorry I had to kill those guys

I kind of liked the way The Messenger was set up like that, too. All you had to do really was figure out what tool or weapon you'd use and the game played it out.

happy trails,

Carolyn

Hi Jenny

It has to be when your hands move quicker than your brain Or my ten year old on the PC next to me, seems to be moving in slow motion.

Pete

I have to agree with other folks here. If there are a ton of tims puzzles or fighting, then I would classify the game as Action/Adventure.

That's a really good point. Often it seems like adventure games that include action elements don't go to the trouble to make the action elements coherent and workable: they just stick them in there! Like, "well, it's an adventure game, so we don't really have to spend time on this..." Except, if that's the attitude they should just forget it, because it's annoying to action and adventure afficianados both. Part of what raises my blood pressure is how often action elements in adventure games just pop up with no warning, and all of a sudden you're just supposed to have this skill. As opposed to "real" action games where you get to practice making the 2-foot leap or shooting really slow creatures before you're required to make the 30-foot leap while fighting super-fast mutant ninjas.

WW