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For those of you who have played Schizm... #117678
10/28/03 01:37 PM
10/28/03 01:37 PM
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 3,669
New York
Mary Offline OP
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Mary  Offline OP
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Joined: Nov 1999
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I started playing Schizm a little while ago. I was doing okay for a while, and then I hit the "fish balloon" puzzle and spent hours and hours working on that gas collector, then just using a walkthrough to get past it. But now I'm in the Bosh Tunnels, and I've got "spirits" mumbling words at me that I'm supposed to understand, and let's not even talk about the "meter" puzzle that I'm supposed to figure out mathematically. (I was a Math major in college, but that was a looong time ago.) Once again, I'll be reading the walkthrough and doing the game step by step.
Okay, now comes my question: does this game ever become "fun"? I'm not opposed to a difficult puzzle now and again, and I will admit the game is beautiful, but I'm not enjoying myself! I know a lot of you picked this game as one of your favorites, but I'm having one heck of a time with it, at least so far. duh


The answer is....chocolate! Who cares what the question is.....
Re: For those of you who have played Schizm... #117679
10/28/03 02:31 PM
10/28/03 02:31 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 862
Ottawa, Canada
Mordack Offline
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Mordack  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 862
Ottawa, Canada
What? Your not having fun? I love this game and I demand that you love it too. Can't what for the sequel to arrive. Now...let's see...where is my trig book...

Re: For those of you who have played Schizm... #117680
10/28/03 03:11 PM
10/28/03 03:11 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 51,198
Upstate NY
Pandora Offline
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Pandora  Offline
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Posts: 51,198
Upstate NY
I'm with you, Mary. Schizm was a gorgeous game and I wanted to like it, but I felt the game didn't give me a chance. I had no problem with the gas puzzle because I've posted similar ones in the puzzle forum, but that mumbling priest made his puzzle impossible and....no fun. Just frustrating. As I recall, I solved the math one with ratios - no trig was necessary. I could be wrong about that. But that puzzle was also....no fun. I regretfully quit playing mid-game.


Last edited by looney4labs; 06/25/07 06:07 PM. Reason: remove broken link

We do not see things as they are, we see things as we are. - Anais Nin
Re: For those of you who have played Schizm... #117681
10/28/03 03:16 PM
10/28/03 03:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 7,858
North Florida
BillyBob Offline
BAAG Specialist
BillyBob  Offline
BAAG Specialist

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 7,858
North Florida
Frankly, I didn't care much for it, either. Although I am supposedly mathmatically inclined (YES, inclined, not declined) I don't seem to care much for these kinds of puzzles nor do I want to learn another nonexistent language in order to play.

This makes it difficult to explain what I DO like about a game. I've done a lot without WTs and some with WTs and some just a hint occasionally from a WT. Although my thinking is pretty much "linear" I've managed to get through some puzzles that were not so logical (to my way of thinking) and it has, I guess, been largely a matter of luck. For instance, the Clock Tower Puzzle in MYST. I figured out every conceivable move involved in clicking those two levers and it turned out you held one down for a turn or two and it operated differently. Still, it was my first game and I liked it a lot. Wonder why? laugh


I didn't do it......and if I did I'm not guilty!
Re: For those of you who have played Schizm... #117682
10/28/03 03:38 PM
10/28/03 03:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 26,917
Stony Brook, New York, USA
Becky Offline
The Medieval Lady
Becky  Offline
The Medieval Lady
Sonic Boomer

Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 26,917
Stony Brook, New York, USA
Mary -- are you playing the DVD version? There is more about the plot in the DVD version and I think that makes the game more fun.

I loved the game, especially the graphics and atmosphere and cutscenes. I had to cheat on a few of the puzzles. Well, maybe more than a few.

Re: For those of you who have played Schizm... #117683
10/28/03 04:37 PM
10/28/03 04:37 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 694
Stockholm, Sweden
Lagavulin Offline
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Lagavulin  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 694
Stockholm, Sweden
thumbsup

Well I just LOVED playing Schizm thanks to the hard puzzles.

thumbsup


ON:Ether One Redux
Recent:Stasis,Gabriel Knight3(RP),Gabriel Knight2(RP),Barrow Hill D P,Syberia2(RP),Secret Files P C,Inner World,Eyes Of Ara
Re: For those of you who have played Schizm... #117684
10/28/03 05:34 PM
10/28/03 05:34 PM
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 3,669
New York
Mary Offline OP
Addicted Boomer
Mary  Offline OP
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Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 3,669
New York
Becky,
I'm playing the CD version. I'm REALLY disappointed, and I hate to give up on any game (unless they've got glitches or bugs), but I also don't like "playing" a game with walkthrough in hand. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one having trouble, though.
I may get myself through this section and then see if I can get ANYTHING accomplished on my own!


The answer is....chocolate! Who cares what the question is.....
Re: For those of you who have played Schizm... #117685
10/28/03 05:46 PM
10/28/03 05:46 PM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 1,075
the netherlands
josefien Offline
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josefien  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 1,075
the netherlands
Mary,
I did play the dvd version, but I gave up as well. Concerning math, I never understood it and that will be the reason I didn't finish the game. I quit in the Bosh tunnels. Finishing a game by just using a walkthrough is no fun anymore.


josefien
Re: For those of you who have played Schizm... #117686
10/28/03 05:58 PM
10/28/03 05:58 PM
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,450
somewhere in time
Happy Gamer Offline
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Happy Gamer  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,450
somewhere in time
I never finished this game either...I was basically miserable during gameplay and decided no matter how much I hated to give up I couldn't afford to waste that kind of time when I wasn't having one tiny bit of fun...working hard on a game needs to have a fun factor in there somewhere..for me at least. But boy did I hate throwing in the towel...now Black Mirror is a horse of a different color...LOL

Re: For those of you who have played Schizm... #117687
10/28/03 06:00 PM
10/28/03 06:00 PM
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 26,917
Stony Brook, New York, USA
Becky Offline
The Medieval Lady
Becky  Offline
The Medieval Lady
Sonic Boomer

Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 26,917
Stony Brook, New York, USA
It's too bad they had to edit out so much of the plot in the CD version. If you're struggling with the puzzles it helps if you can mull over the central mystery as you struggle.

Personally, I think I would have left in the video messages from the previous team, and maybe taken out, hmmm, let's see...the puzzle where you have to decode the monk's language.

Yeah, that'd be a good exchange!

Re: For those of you who have played Schizm... #117688
10/28/03 06:14 PM
10/28/03 06:14 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 129
NSW, Australia
mystmum Offline
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mystmum  Offline
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 129
NSW, Australia
I have the CD version, and it's buggy as well. I'm afraid it too is gathering dust on the shelf, unfinished.
I'm seriously disappointed in it. I was really looking forward to it, but I just can't be bothered trying to sort out the bugs in it, because the puzzles I have managed to solve, I have no idea how I did it - it was total guesswork, and that's no fun.


Don't follow me, I'm lost too!
Re: For those of you who have played Schizm... #117689
10/29/03 12:05 AM
10/29/03 12:05 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 3,424
WA. USA
lasanidine Offline
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lasanidine  Offline
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 3,424
WA. USA
I loved Schizm. Pandora is right there was no need for trig, the ratios did it.

The priest's mumbling on the garden could be ignored.

I thought that both the air pump and the fish balloon puzzles were elegant.

With the fish puzzle you rally have to pay attention to what you see when you instert the disk to get the nav. codes.

I found the bridge connector puzzle the most troublesome because you have to win twice in a row.

The game was beautifully made and programed with great care. I played the DVD variation and found no glithches of bugs.


"I am not young enough to know everything."

Oscar Wilde
Re: For those of you who have played Schizm... #117690
10/29/03 12:35 AM
10/29/03 12:35 AM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



My USA epal quit Schizm for the same reasons ..... I haven't begun it yet! I think it is a game one has to get annoyed with, like Jewels of the Oracle? No story, just puzzles? LOL

Re: For those of you who have played Schizm... #117691
10/29/03 01:04 AM
10/29/03 01:04 AM
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 26,917
Stony Brook, New York, USA
Becky Offline
The Medieval Lady
Becky  Offline
The Medieval Lady
Sonic Boomer

Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 26,917
Stony Brook, New York, USA
Well, there IS a story, particularly if you get the DVD version!

It's not as story-intensive as a game like, say The Longest Journey or Runaway. There's more emphasis on exploration in Schizm than in the games I just mentioned. I would say that there are fewer puzzles in Schizm than in Runaway (if you just went through and counted) but the puzzles in Schizm are harder.

But Schizm definitely has more story than Jewels of the Oracle.

Re: For those of you who have played Schizm... #117692
10/29/03 12:49 PM
10/29/03 12:49 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,506
hunched over my computer
wysewomon Offline
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hunched over my computer
I was also really disappointed in Schizm, tho' I did get through it. It seemed to me that a lot of the puzzles had too many arbitrary variables and not so much internal logic that you could actually figure out. In fact, I thought the internal logic of the Place was non-existent. And the sound puzzle was one of the worst I've ever come across. I also hated the way the two-character thing was handled, and I thought it was totally lame the way they cut so much out of the CD version.

The guy "ghost" was really hunky, tho' laugh

ww


"So then he says it's enough to take aim! What's that supposed to mean?!?"

Re: For those of you who have played Schizm... #117693
10/29/03 01:14 PM
10/29/03 01:14 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,500
Central Pennsylvania
E
esube Offline
Addicted Boomer
esube  Offline
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E

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,500
Central Pennsylvania
I have Schizm loaded up at the moment, but I have to admit it ain't going very fast. I have made it to the priest speaking gibberish in the garden and found the prayer-wheel like gizmos, all without a walkthrough so far.

But (playing the CD version, mind you) I don't feel much like going on. A game with lots of hard puzzles is fine, but if you can't skip around from puzzle to puzzle (as in a pure puzzle game like Jewels of the Oracle or Pandora's Box) or if there's no story to pique your curiosity, then there's not a lot that's going to bring you back over and over again to a game.

That being said, I like Schizm. Great graphics and fantastic transitions and movements. So maybe I should go back and listen some more. laugh


"I could help you if I had my salmon"
Re: For those of you who have played Schizm... #117694
10/29/03 10:19 PM
10/29/03 10:19 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 93
Batavia, Illinois
CNW400 Offline
Shy Boomer
CNW400  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 93
Batavia, Illinois
I too quit at the monk.
It was at this time when I reached him and was trying to figure out what he was saying that I realized I really didn't give a d*** anymore.

And to those who say "Well, the DVD version was better" I say: Why is that?

I can understand where a company may need to omit some puzzles or unnecessary locations between the CD & DVD versions, but to ruin the storyline and make the game difficult to understand and unenjoyable to many is just bad business. That bad business could come back to haunt them in future games that get left on the shelf by people who choose not to drop $20 to $50 on a game by a company that disappointed them before.

All I can say is after I decided to call it quits on this game I put it up on eBay, opening bid @ $5. It expired with no bids.

Re: For those of you who have played Schizm... #117695
10/29/03 10:30 PM
10/29/03 10:30 PM
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 26,917
Stony Brook, New York, USA
Becky Offline
The Medieval Lady
Becky  Offline
The Medieval Lady
Sonic Boomer

Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 26,917
Stony Brook, New York, USA
From what I understand, Schizm's developers originally planned to bring the game out ONLY on DVD. Although it's possible now that this idea would fly, at the time games on DVD weren't selling well, so their publisher insisted on a CD version.

I've seen an interview with the writer who wrote the Schizm story, and he was extremely disappointed to find that the CD version basically removed large parts of the plotline.

I would imagine that in cutting the game down to fit it on CDs, one factor in deciding what to eliminate was the technical ease of removing things. The parts where actors appear and tell the story was probably easier to remove than the puzzles were.

Re: For those of you who have played Schizm... #117696
10/29/03 11:41 PM
10/29/03 11:41 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 243
Pennsylvania
Cat in the Hat Offline
Settled Boomer
Cat in the Hat  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 243
Pennsylvania
I thought it was fun at the begining, but I too kept having to consult the walkthrough. I also didn't understand the mumbling. I love first person adventures, especially with more mechanical puzzles, but this one was too difficult. I played about 3/4 of the game, and I quit. May I suggest Physicus, if you haven't already played it?

Re: For those of you who have played Schizm... #117697
10/30/03 08:43 AM
10/30/03 08:43 AM
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 3,669
New York
Mary Offline OP
Addicted Boomer
Mary  Offline OP
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Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 3,669
New York
Well, I'm plodding along, reading my walkthrough sentence by sentence, trying to decipher what in the world those "vases" are trying to say to me. Now I found a "mission log" in the ruins of a room, but can't get it to work. If I read the walkthrough for the DVD version, I'm supposed to hear THREE messages from Angela Davies. Could this be one of the things they deleted from the CD version, or have I missed a step? If it was purposely eliminated from the CD version, I feel like I was gypped! frown


The answer is....chocolate! Who cares what the question is.....
Re: For those of you who have played Schizm... #117698
10/30/03 09:16 AM
10/30/03 09:16 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 7,762
Kentwood, Left my heart in New...
JohnBoy Offline
BAAG Specialist
JohnBoy  Offline
BAAG Specialist

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 7,762
Kentwood, Left my heart in New...
Loved it and hated it!


I Baag, Therefore I Am. Update: I Don't Baag Anymore, Therefore I Ain't! Update: I'm baaging again but just a little.
JohnBoy
----------------
Re: For those of you who have played Schizm... #117699
10/30/03 09:27 AM
10/30/03 09:27 AM
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 26,917
Stony Brook, New York, USA
Becky Offline
The Medieval Lady
Becky  Offline
The Medieval Lady
Sonic Boomer

Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 26,917
Stony Brook, New York, USA
Johnboy -- yes, ambiguity is good!

Mary. Indeed, the messages explaining what's going on were mostly deleted. There are also other things that were deleted, including at least one part of a puzzle near the end. Marita has written a walkthrough for the CD version, and it will save you some heartache if you use that instead of the DVD walkthrough.

Re: For those of you who have played Schizm... #117700
10/31/03 04:22 AM
10/31/03 04:22 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 559
Antelope Valley, So CA, USA
grandpa68 Offline
Settled Boomer
grandpa68  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 559
Antelope Valley, So CA, USA
I am about to quit this game. I am at the 1st railway track puzzle and it has me baffled. I have looked at the WT several times and it doesn't help.


Keep smiling and the world will smile with you.
-------------------
Re: For those of you who have played Schizm... #117701
10/31/03 01:52 PM
10/31/03 01:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,216
Virginia's wetland dimension
Salar of Myst Offline
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Salar of Myst  Offline
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Posts: 4,216
Virginia's wetland dimension
Shorah!

I gotta join in on this one, short time or no short time laugh

I finally joined JA forum this month and mentioned that ole monk in a thread about the worst adventure puzzles ever (& the double bridge win thing & 2nd coordinate puzzle). I also mentioned that some of these most frustrating puzzles were from games I loved (including Schizm). Some folks agreed with me & some didnt.

One of the developers, Maciek, turned up and disgreed vehemently with all I had to say. (using Sam's picture. Maybe he *is* Sam?). He said ... oh never mind I will just copy his comments so y'all can see what the Schizm team was thinking when they made them

Quote:

***********************************************
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Quoting me:
Schizm:
1) the infamous bridges (c'mon, why cant we save in between?)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Think, think! The save would make this puzzle no-brainer. Actually most players tried to pass it without thinking about the strategy. There is a strategy which makes winning almost sure. I am lousy adventure gamer but knowing that strategy I didn't have any problems with passing this puzzle.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Quoting me again:
2) Monk/tile/sounds ...especially the sounds

3) 2nd coordinates set, Im not great adding nums in degrees, especially when the place we got our nums from in the first place was nonsensically skipping one (Amazing that this fact didnt slow me up sooner!)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Frankly speaking, what's the point of puzzle where you have to match/add/combine easily recognizable symbols or easy to understand sounds. Where's the challenge? Also, some symbols/sounds easy to understand for some (e.g. Americans) are very hard for others (other nations).
************************************************
A Later poster challenged his comments about the priest puzzle. I actually found this reply amusing *chuckles* read on...


Quote:

*********************************************
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Quote:
The monk chants a string of nonsense words. It is very hard to know where one nonsense word ends and the next one begins. Like listening to a foreign language that you don't speak, it's one long stream of sounds.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That words are nonsense for you, not for Argilans... Anyway, those words were just sounds, their meaning isn't important for the puzzle. And as I said, something meaningful for you isn't meaningful for large portion of gamers.

The puzzle required matching some sounds with shapes. In order to make it simpler for those who don't have musical ear, we chose nonsense words instead of sounds with varied pitch (valve puzzle in Reah comes to mind, that one was difficult) or melodies.

The words monks shouts are difficult to understand because:

1. He is a ghost and ghosts usually speak differently.
2. He appears at large distance from you and as in real life the distance makes sounds harder to hear.
3. What's worse, he shouts those words in large space with very high reverberation, which again makes them even more difficult to hear.

There are reasons for that situation as you can see, besides the necessity of making the puzzle harder.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Quote: (Note a poster suggested they make some puzles fuzzier instead of harder)

I'm not sure if the word "scrambled" is used in a technical sense, but I was talking specifically about *fuzzy*, meaning hard to see the details. The visual equivalent of hard to hear the details. You didn't answer that question.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yes, "fuzzy" could be used as well. For example to hide details of something but allowing to see only a shape which consequently can be used to figure out the hidden details.
********************************************
Bicardi Jim gave an excellent reply, as follows:
**********************************************
Quote:
He may have missed the point, Bijtje, but for once I am in total agreement with you. The first time you make the monk appear, he blurts out his chant before you can even grab your pencil, assuming you had one at the ready. Then you have to wander back and forth across that area hoping to trigger his reappearance. Lets say you finally get him to reappear and have pencil and notepaper ready... you start to write down what he says, but it is an unintelligible mishmash of sounds.

There is simply NO WAY to transcribe the priest's chant without several repeated listenings. At least there wasn't for me. It took hearing it about 4-5 times. And like me or hate me, I think even my enemies will agree that I'm no moron. Simply put, Maciek is flat-out wrong when he contends that, "there is no need to go hear the monk more than twice."

On the other hand, I will agree with him that the puzzle isn't "unfair." The random appearance of the priest when you hit the correct spot, the distortion of his voice, the distance between the priest and the "practice" prayer grinder (which FORCES you to write down the chant phonetically, as it takes several minutes to get from where you hear the chant to where you can practice repeating it) and the five "red herring" sets of grinders within the temple itself all contribute to make an already tough sound puzzle maddening. But it is fair.

It just wasn't fun.
********************************************


And this was and is my final word on the whole matter.
Salar


Quote:

********************************************
Make Schizm fuzzier? They did that too. It was called the cd version

Helllooo Maciek!

Good to hear from you...even though I hardly agree with a word you've said *chuckles*

Now, I listed Schizm as a favourite game for good reason. It certainly gave me that happy "aha" feeling when I *did* solve a puzzle/section. The plot was cool, The locations were amazing. I loved Hannah & Sam (Hi Sam!) The ending & a few of the puzzles..could have used a little more work.

NO, I dont think it would have made the bridge "too easy" if I could have saved in between rounds. It wasnt easy the first time! It was a fun challenge until I found I had to win twice in a row to go on. (I'd love the circuit puzzle as a minigame, though)

Tough but fair? uumm making me learn an alien system is fair, skippings nums in a standard measuring device is pushing it IMO

If I need to learn something new, it helps if there is a way to learn it without more twists..like the neat mural y'all did of the survey machine at the temple or Myst's holographic control in Mechanical Age.

and the Priest thing was cool to experience, but sadly you felt this incredible need to make a reasonably hard puzzle even harder by adding the reverberation (among other things). I hate to tell you this but We (my Mom and I) solved it intuitively without entirely understanding what was going on. My notes have five versions of the phonetics as we struggled with it. THEN we got to the prayer grinder wheel/color thing. All in all it took days to get past there. That whole experience wasnt nearly as entertaining as the parts that made it up ..the tiles, the speech, prayer grinders etc

By contrast the airship sound puzzle was lovely. You could hear each piece clearly.

The fish ship coordinates puzzle was fun, the first city coordinate challenge was fun. Working out the second set wasnt at all.

Do you know how often I add coordinates in real life? Care to guess? How about a happy page explaining how to do this in the emergency technical journal Hannah wasn't carrying. 'Course I will still have to translate to Argilan but at least I have the principle...
& Hey, I learned something!

HHmmm its a balloon collector: Nice of the Professor to mumble that phrase about adding values before she vanished... Told me this was meant to be worked out as a math problem IF I could just work out how to set that up...(as opposed to overloading pressure on a pipe or something else) Do you see what I mean now? Clues dont have to be huge spoilers.

Give me a good puzzle, yes! I love that! but please give me a way to solve it too.

Overall, I think you guys did a great job & so we are looking forward to Schizm2. I'll give you this, there is a definite sense of having accomplished something in completing your game(s)

Frankly, every puzzle seems easy when you know the answers.

And makes sense when you know the reasons.

The trick is conveying the necessary background to the player without spoiling the game. This is the bit that needs tweaking IMHO

Sincerely,

Salar
***********************************************
It may help to know how they think when Schizm2 comes out.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="tongue.gif" /> lol

Re: For those of you who have played Schizm... #117702
10/31/03 02:10 PM
10/31/03 02:10 PM
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 3,669
New York
Mary Offline OP
Addicted Boomer
Mary  Offline OP
Addicted Boomer

Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 3,669
New York
Thanks for posting, Salar. I particularly liked how you summed up: "...every puzzle seems easy when you know the answers...and makes sense when you know the reasons.." I don't know, I'm just not having fun here. I thought Black Dahlia had some extremely tough puzzles, and yes, I needed some help getting through them, but the story, IMHO, was strong enough to keep me going: I wanted to see what was going to happen next. I'm not getting that feeling here. I'm about to start the Bosh Tunnels, Part 2, but I can't say my heart's in it. frown


The answer is....chocolate! Who cares what the question is.....
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