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Re: Farewell Cyan #119363
09/05/05 01:42 AM
09/05/05 01:42 AM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,451
Cambridge, England
Kickaha Offline
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Cambridge, England
Cyan achieved a lot, and influenced many people. They more than deserve their round of applause.

Like Bruce I feel "Uru" was a bridge too far for Cyan.

Cyan's closure may have a positive side if it redirects attention onto other kinds of Adventure games.


Used to answer to "Peter Smith", now answers to "Peter Rootham-Smith"
Re: Farewell Cyan #119364
09/05/05 11:40 AM
09/05/05 11:40 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 40,607
southeast USA
Jenny100 Offline
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southeast USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Peter Smith:

Cyan's closure may have a positive side if it redirects attention onto other kinds of Adventure games.
I think you're forgetting that publishers don't know Myst from TLJ or even from In Cold Blood.

We were starting to get more 3rd person adventures after TLJ and Syberia. The failure of Uru and Cyan can only serve to convince them that adventure games cannot be blockbusters and therefore are not worth pursuing.

It's too bad Cyan put all their eggs in one basket the way they did. The technology wasn't there for Uru Online at the time it came out. It was much too slow and buggy to attract many players. And its failure means no one else will try to create a similar online adventure game. If Cyan had produced interim games with the quality of Riven, they'd have made enough to have been able to pay their workers and stay in business until technology did advance to the point where an ordinary Myst fan would have been able to play a future version of Uru without those problems.

Re: Farewell Cyan #119365
09/05/05 12:56 PM
09/05/05 12:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,216
Virginia's wetland dimension
Salar of Myst Offline
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Virginia's wetland dimension
Quote:
I think you're forgetting that publishers don't know Myst from TLJ or even from In Cold Blood.
Going to have to disagree there.

Cyan is about the only adventure developer publishers DO know by name (the other famous folks of yesteryear haven't made adventure games in awhile). Rand Miller and his bro appeared in GAP ads and what not. People in the industry still know the name of Cyan, and most especially they still know Rand's name. He's been a pioneer as well as a dreamer.

Miller's efforts over time have attracted publicity that no other developer of our genre has been able to manage in a time when a virtual news blackout on non-fighting gaming seems to exist in mainstream venues. Only Sokal & the TLJ guy came close to drawing news attention, but it was a pretty distant second.

This is why even Cyan's potential closure makes the news on Slashdot.

I can't see blaming Rand for not guessing the correct timing for the release of something like Uru. He had to start way in advance fo the date to be ready, for one thing.

& A lot of technical people believed everyone would be gaming online in the near future. If Miller made a mistake thinking the market was ready for it, so did Bill Gates. Bill obviously thinks the time is ripe now. Ads for the tv/net system Gates planned over a decade ago are being promoted on tv as I write this.

IMHO the time for Uru to work is rapidly approaching. It is one of the very few titles friendly to the whole family. I truly believe it still has a chance if properly promoted. Someone said on a Myst forum that Cyan Worlds' games was the computer equivalent of Disneyland/Disneyworld. They make dreams families can share. Before Disney most parks weren't places you should take your kids. Thanks to Disney even naughtier places found it a profitable notion to maintain a child-friendly area.

Right now most of the games I see promoted online are about fighting: fantasy fighting, war sims, role-play, criminal, or crime fighting. Some virtual environments exist. Seemed like most of the ones I looked at weren't promoting family values though. duh

Seems to me we could still use that online 'Disneyland.'

Nintendo is the only other one who might manage it and they have been developing products in other directions. (I'm very grateful for the alternatives Miyamoto and his colleagues have made in the console market!)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="3" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong>What can I do to get on your list??? wave

Re: Farewell Cyan #119366
09/05/05 03:42 PM
09/05/05 03:42 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 638
Amarillo, TX USA
Bruce Fielder Offline
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 638
Amarillo, TX USA
I agree with almost all of what Susan said. I commend Cyan for building a vast world like URU and for taking a chance on the spread of broadband internet connections. The fact that the majority of homes in the US still don't have broadband is due to the cost of the service and the lack of any clear governmental mandate to make broadband the standard internet connection in this country.

Many European countries and cities, large and small, have broadband connections as a matter of fact - - it is the norm over there and the odd situation over here. There is something to be said for federalized and standardized communication pathways versus "free" competition by quasi-private/government funded entities like we have over here in nearly all utility sectors. But I digress. . .

For the homes that can afford broadband connections, online gaming is very popular. My 11 year old son is hooked on Guild Wars for instance but it only works due to the cable modem connection I have due to my working out of my house.

Game publishers like UbiSoft, the old Presto Studios, et al, did indeed know of Cyan. I hope that Rand was able to salvage some of the money he and Robin earned with Myst, Riven and the royalty fees Cyan earned from Myst 3 & 4 to rise phoenix-like and once again produce magical, family friendly worlds to explore.


Live by the Golden Rule at all times.
Re: Farewell Cyan #119367
09/05/05 04:48 PM
09/05/05 04:48 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 40,607
southeast USA
Jenny100 Offline
GB Reviewer Glitches Moderator
Jenny100  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
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southeast USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Salar of Myst:
Quote:
[b]I think you're forgetting that publishers don't know Myst from TLJ or even from In Cold Blood.
Going to have to disagree there.

Cyan is about the only adventure developer publishers DO know by name (the other famous folks of yesteryear haven't made adventure games in awhile)... [/b]
Where did I say they'd never heard of Cyan?
What I said is that they can't tell one adventure game from another. So if Cyan fails they're more likely to think no adventure game will sell than to blame the lack of broadband or whatever. And that includes 3rd person adventures and adventures that aren't really much like Myst at all. Anything that doesn't rely on dexterity won't get a big budget for development.

I didn't even mention broadband in my previous message and I wasn't specifically talking about that when I said "the technology wasn't there." Even people with broadband and (at the time) fast computers had lags and bugs with Uru Online once any number of people joined.

Uru can't work now or in the future. It came out too early and it failed. And it will be the last attempt at a big budget online adventure for the forseeable future. Even if it had hadn't had technical problems, it's no certain thing that it could have built up an audience fast enough to suit the publishers.

I'm not blaming Rand for Uru's failure. But if he'd hedged his bets, Cyan would still be in operation. Uru would probably not be finished, since it would have been worked on in conjunction with a different game. But that would have been for the best anyway.

Re: Farewell Cyan #119368
09/05/05 05:06 PM
09/05/05 05:06 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 638
Amarillo, TX USA
Bruce Fielder Offline
Settled Boomer
Bruce Fielder  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 638
Amarillo, TX USA
Jenny100, I see now what you meant and I agree with you that most game publishers cannot (or don't care enough to try) distinguish between pure adventure games and other types of PC games. Pure adventure games have been suffering from declining sales for the last few years and, as you pointed out, the failure of URU can only make publishers more wary about funding adventure games going forward.

Cyan reached high with URU, perhaps too high as it turned out, but they were true to their vision.

Perhaps the only way for pure adventure games to continue will be via the independent game designers that we see on GB and other sites. The downloadable games may be the only viable distribution alternative as well. There will be a few independent games that get "picked up" by publishers (like Dark Fall did) but it will be few and far between.


Live by the Golden Rule at all times.
Re: Farewell Cyan #119369
09/05/05 07:17 PM
09/05/05 07:17 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 40,607
southeast USA
Jenny100 Offline
GB Reviewer Glitches Moderator
Jenny100  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 40,607
southeast USA
Yes it's very sad. It will probably mean we'll only have shorter games if they all go to download. A lot of adventure games are short even now, even though they aren't downloads. Not that short games can't be good, but it would be nice to have the choice of buying an epic length adventure once in a while.

Re: Farewell Cyan #119370
09/05/05 09:04 PM
09/05/05 09:04 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,588
Oklahoma, USA
Homer6 Offline
BAAG Specialist
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Posts: 5,588
Oklahoma, USA
I wonder, if games were only to be acquired through downolading, wouldn't that limit the market to those with broadband connections? Would someone with a dial-up connection want to take the time to download a game much over 1Mb, much less in the tens of Mb?

I can see broadband providers screaming if the federal government did mandate broadband be available for everyone who wanted to access the internet. The capital required for this to happen would be in the millions of dollars and there would be no guarantee of an adequate return on that capital. Or, the customer furtherest out would be paying a very high price because of their location


If something gets your goat, it just proves you have a goat to get.
Re: Farewell Cyan #119371
09/05/05 09:53 PM
09/05/05 09:53 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 839
Bradford, ON
F
Fongo Offline
Settled Boomer
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F

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 839
Bradford, ON
Well, I think the fact that they didn't just close their doors completely is probably a good sign. By cutting their operating costs down to very little just before (presumably) going into a period of cash inflow, they can basically take all of their revenues from Myst V and send it over to Ubi Soft.

In fact, I wonder whether Cyan is even in a position to take on more investment from other sources to make a new game, as long as (theoretically) Ubi was knocking on the door asking for their money.

The puzzling issue in all of this for me is: why stop making Myst games? I mean, I understand why they would stop from a creative perspective, but if there ever was a sure-fire way to bring in revenue from an adventure game, Myst would be it. Perhaps this is all a strategy to get the Ubi monkey off their backs for good, and then start fresh afterward.

Re: Farewell Cyan #119372
09/06/05 12:12 AM
09/06/05 12:12 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,565
Pennsylvania, USA (left my bel...
mszv Offline
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Pennsylvania, USA (left my bel...
Hi,
There is no official info on what is happening at Cyan, from Rand Miller, the CEO of Cyan Worlds. But - the best article on what is going on, both informative and evocative, is from Jack Allin, published at Adventure Gamers.

Adventure Gamers article about Cyan Worlds


mszv, amarez in Myst Online (KI 89257)and my online worlds.

blog - http://www.amarez.com, Twitter - http://www.twitter.com/amareze
Re: Farewell Cyan #119373
09/06/05 01:47 AM
09/06/05 01:47 AM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,451
Cambridge, England
Kickaha Offline
GB Special Events Reporter
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,451
Cambridge, England
It's difficult posting in a different timezone to most of the rest of you - one's always too late in reacting.

I didn't mean publishers when I said Cyan's closure might mean a positive change of attention. I meant the Adventure game community. Publishers are for the moment mostly a dead loss.

On the subject of publishers the late great Presto Studios were developers not publishers.

The future is in our hands. It really is.


Used to answer to "Peter Smith", now answers to "Peter Rootham-Smith"
Re: Farewell Cyan #119374
09/06/05 07:39 AM
09/06/05 07:39 AM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 638
Amarillo, TX USA
Bruce Fielder Offline
Settled Boomer
Bruce Fielder  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 638
Amarillo, TX USA
MSZV, thanks for that link to the excellent summary on Cyan's situation. I hope it is a new beginning as Rand said rather than just an ending.


Live by the Golden Rule at all times.
Re: Farewell Cyan #119375
09/06/05 02:09 PM
09/06/05 02:09 PM
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 31,224
Northwestern New Mexico, USA
Jenny Offline
Grande Olde Dame
Jenny  Offline
Grande Olde Dame
Sonic Boomer

Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 31,224
Northwestern New Mexico, USA
Cyan started as a "garage" company, and look at what came out of that!!! praise

Hopefully, this will become another case of what Mary, Queen of Scots, stated: "In my end is my beginning". I wish that Cyan would re-issue some of their oldest works, especially Manhole...


"Once you give up integrity, the rest is easy." Anonymous
Re: Farewell Cyan #119376
09/07/05 07:09 AM
09/07/05 07:09 AM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 638
Amarillo, TX USA
Bruce Fielder Offline
Settled Boomer
Bruce Fielder  Offline
Settled Boomer

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 638
Amarillo, TX USA
I'd like to see their earlier works as well. I really prefer the older games in many ways and it's neat to see how far game graphics have come. I wish the story lines were advancing as well.


Live by the Golden Rule at all times.
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