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walkthroughs #119511
09/28/05 06:27 AM
09/28/05 06:27 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 799
Manchester
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ritchiesbabe Offline OP
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What really annoys me is that nowadays I need a walkthrough for practically every game I play, but when I didnt have the internet (and even if I had I wouldnt have heard of walkthroughs), I finished lots of games without a walkthrough. A few examples:
Simon Sorcerer 1 and 2
Monkey Island 1, 2 and 3
Broken Sword 1 and 2
Nightlong
The Feeble Files
Is it just me who finds this annoying?
Dont get me wrong I do love walkthroughs and I have a lot of respect for the people who write them, it just confuses me how I need to use one nowadays when before I managed fine without them.


"Life's a game. It's meant to be played."
Re: walkthroughs #119512
09/28/05 06:59 AM
09/28/05 06:59 AM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 570
U.S.
Bert Offline
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I think its because you have easy access to them now....I avoid them..and use a hint system to give myself a nudge..

Re: walkthroughs #119513
09/28/05 09:40 AM
09/28/05 09:40 AM
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 26,917
Stony Brook, New York, USA
Becky Offline
The Medieval Lady
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Maybe you used to have more time to work on a puzzle when you were stuck?

Re: walkthroughs #119514
09/28/05 01:43 PM
09/28/05 01:43 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,171
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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Susie07 Offline
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When I first started playing the old Infocom text adventure games in 1986, I would get stuck for weeks, and ended up with pages and pages of maps. Then I discovered hint books where the hints were printed in "invisible ink" and you needed a special pen to reveal them, one at a time. I think that's probably where the current UHS hint files came from. I joined CompuServe in 1993 and discovered the GAMERS forum where I could get hints when I was stuck, and it was less expensive than buying the hint books. Back then, though, nobody asked for saved games ... just hints or outright spoilers. There were walkthrus and UHS hint files available for download in the forum library for those who chose to use them.

It seems that patience is not a virtue these days, but instant gratification is, and some gamers just don't want to take the time to solve puzzles themselves.

I have NO willpower, so if I used a walkthru to help me through a tough spot, I'd end up peeking at parts of the game I haven't played yet and spoil everything; therefore, when I get stuck, I prefer a hint to help me out.

Susan

Re: walkthroughs #119515
09/28/05 02:18 PM
09/28/05 02:18 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 580
metamorphium Offline
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I also think that this is the reason why many gamers complain about short gameplay time. It's obvious that especially adventure games are a bit shorter but on the other hand, how many players are still able to play an adventure game without referring to walkthrough? wink


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Re: walkthroughs #119516
09/28/05 03:49 PM
09/28/05 03:49 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,152
New Baltimore, MI
lonewolf32 Offline
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New Baltimore, MI
I agree, they are way too easy to get to these days. I used to call the Sierra Hint Line only when I was in a desperate situation. Now hints are just an Alt-Tab away.

Its true too, that I don't have the time anymore, or the patience to be stuck for weeks.

"Needing" a hint means either that I wasn't smart enough to figure it out myself, or that the developer made it impossibly hard. But you never know which before you get the hint.

Thats also why I've been expanding my horizons with other game types, because of this. I had so much fun playing games like Beyond Good and Evil, and Psychonauts, because of the refreshing gameplay mechanics (while at the same time being adventures at heart) and the lack of a need for a walkthrough in either game.


Dave
Re: walkthroughs #119517
09/28/05 04:12 PM
09/28/05 04:12 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 451
Berkeley, CA
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orchgamer Offline
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I think that this is an interesting thread, and for me personally, this topic is the main reason there was a time that I didn't enjoy adventure games so much. It is precisely the fact that walkthroughs and saved games are so immediately available AND individuals use them so quickly, that the qualities that make adventure games great (i.e. puzzles, "epic" storylines and their development) are diminished. For example, the experience of the story as it unravels in a game is more fullfilling when time is given to it. This includes, being stumped on puzzles, repeated movement through landscape, and even adaptability to the environments.

To clarify, I totally support walkthroughs, the need for them, as well as an individual's desire to use them.

I would recommend, however, to someone who once finished games without them, that they set a personal limit on viewing them while gaming. I try to only use a hint system, and also only use them twice or three times during an entire game. This has made me think carefully about giving up on a puzzle or choosing to tackle it another way. Not only does this usually help me solve my problem, but I find I enjoy the game more deeply as well.

Re: walkthroughs #119518
09/28/05 05:18 PM
09/28/05 05:18 PM
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 678
Johannesburg, South Africa
RTC Offline
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Johannesburg, South Africa
Excellent thread indeed, Ritchiesbabe! The very mention of Infocom brings back a flood of fond adventuring memories. I remember phoning a mate (we were working on Zork together) at 3:00 AM to tell him I'd solved a puzzle!

There is little doubt that the full impact and entertainment value is ruined by using walkthrus - and I say this as someone who writes numerous WTs. My walkthrus are really only possibly as a result of the extensive time spent, research and copious notes I make while struggling my way through a game.

Too many people have become totally reliant on WTs and are not prepared to even attempt a puzzle, no matter how easy or difficult it may be. I get many emails from users of my WT's critisizing them coz they don't, for example, say things like "click on the door" to open it, or "there are 2 tables in the room and your WT doesn't say which one to look on".

Much like going on diet if one works in a chocolate factory, it takes major restraint to avoid a peek or getting a hint. For those who haven't tried completing a game without a WT - try it just once, the satisfaction in solving a puzzle or completing a game sans help is immense.


Nostalgia isn't what it used to be!
Re: walkthroughs #119519
09/28/05 08:40 PM
09/28/05 08:40 PM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 570
U.S.
Bert Offline
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A Good thread indeed, There has been other topics on this forum about which adventure game you enjoyed the most, and its generally a game they did'nt use a walkthrough for..much more fullfilling. Your head hurts more but still more fullfilling......

Re: walkthroughs #119520
09/28/05 08:50 PM
09/28/05 08:50 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,663
Massachusetts
friedmonky Offline
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I am certainly not reliant on walkthroughs. I choose to use them. laugh

Walkthroughs rule! thumbsup

Rusty smile


Even monkeys fall from trees sometimes.
Re: walkthroughs #119521
09/28/05 09:48 PM
09/28/05 09:48 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,072
Colorado
ssgamer Offline
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Hi All,

After I have been stuck for two, three, or four weeks, and I have four or five games in the same position, I ask for a hint or check out the walkthrough. I just can't leave a good book unread or a good game unfinished, although if I can't get into the bucket on Uru I might have to do so.
Charllotte

Re: walkthroughs #119522
09/29/05 07:52 AM
09/29/05 07:52 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,152
New Baltimore, MI
lonewolf32 Offline
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One of my biggest reasons, sometimes, that I use a walkthrough (usually UHS Hints so I don't get the full explanation) is because of this:
Say I happen upon a puzzle of some sort. Now maybe the developer intended me to use my sheer genius rotfl to figure it out myself. Or maybe, I was supposed to find a clue or explanation in game to help me solve it. So, should I spend my time looking for such clue, or should I spend my time trying to figure out the puzzle on my own?

This ties in especially early in a game, where you are not sure which type of game the developer made, the first of the second kind. After a while you can get a feel of what kind of game this is going to be.


Dave
Re: walkthroughs #119523
09/29/05 05:29 PM
09/29/05 05:29 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,849
Texas
SnowMoon Offline
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Texas
Quote:
Originally posted by friedmonky:
I am certainly not reliant on walkthroughs. I choose to use them. laugh

Walkthroughs rule! thumbsup

Rusty smile
You said it! thumbsup

Although, for about the past year I have actually tried completing puzzles on my own before reading the solution, and about half of the time I can do it by myself....which is a cool feeling.
But I always want a walkthrough available before I start a game.... LONG LIVE WALKTHROUGHS!! laugh

Re: walkthroughs #119524
09/29/05 06:06 PM
09/29/05 06:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 79,362
In the Naughty Corner
BrownEyedTigre Offline
The Sassy Administrator PR Liaison
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In the Naughty Corner
I too look for a walkthrough before I start playing. I have such limited playing time, that I refuse to be stuck on something for more than a couple nights. Playing is my escape from reality. If it frustrates you so much you don't enjoy it anymore then it is no longer an escape. I have made it through a number of games without any help but I like the security of knowing help is available should I need it.

Ana wave


Don't feed the Trolls
Re: walkthroughs #119525
09/29/05 08:20 PM
09/29/05 08:20 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 410
Alberta, Canada
Pastor_Disaster Offline
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Alberta, Canada
I too find that getting stuck for too long on a puzzle actually decreases the enjoyment for me, for two reasons:

1. I lose track of the story if it takes me a week to get past one single blockade.

2. Rather than using my "inherent genius" or "lateral thinking skills," I end up just trying random combinations of inventory, randomly clicking around a screen, etc. All that tests is my ability to systematically go through my inventory or click every pixel on the screen.


We need to band together! Remember, there is no "I" in "VICTORY"! Oh wait...
Re: walkthroughs #119526
09/29/05 11:20 PM
09/29/05 11:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,041
Bay Area, CA
Melanie1 Offline
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Bay Area, CA
I prefer playing without a WT also but like Ana, always make sure I have one available before starting a game. A couple of nights on one puzzle is enough for me too. After that, the game starts to lose entertainment value for me and becomes frustrating because I want to move on while I have time.

I usually don't have to use them but when I do, am I glad someone else was kind enough to write one so I can get back to enjoying the game. smile

Melanie


"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." Mahatma Gandhi
Re: walkthroughs #119527
10/01/05 01:56 AM
10/01/05 01:56 AM
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,691
Hiding Under a Rock
gamenut Offline
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Well, i can understand all the views, but, i say when you are ready to take the disk and use it as a frisbee w/the dog, or are ready to set fire to the gamebox and instructions it is time to end the pain and get on with the fun..check the walkthru!!!! These are games! I believe they are meant to entertain and be enjoyable...escape from where you are now to someplace else...and only you can determine when you are NOT enjoying the game and need some help! And we all can use some help now and then. Now there may be some geniuses who don't, but really, for us regular folk we don't mind a little help sometimes!!! Thanks to anyone who has ever written a walkthrough and or/hint...and especially to all the gameboomers who post their hints and walkthroughs and who help even with savegames.!!! Thank you , thank you , thank you.

Re: walkthroughs #119528
10/02/05 06:54 AM
10/02/05 06:54 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,643
stoke on trent England
dragonuk44 Offline
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stoke on trent England
I would rather have a hint system as people go about doing a game differantly and certain games with a walk through you see what you dont want to

Re: walkthroughs #119529
10/02/05 07:09 AM
10/02/05 07:09 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,331
New York
Leeana Offline
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I desperateley need them! cant go another step without them it just helps and guides me along You see Im so stupied that well I can start to look around then find something per say and I think "well what, and where do we go with this thing" you know what I mean, a walkthrough is just what its labeled a "WALKthough" its like a lantern a guide a light etc, etc. I love them without my walkthroughs Im stupied PLUS LOST! you know what I mean smile


'Worry looks around, sorry looks back, Faith looks up.'
Re: walkthroughs #119530
10/02/05 09:59 AM
10/02/05 09:59 AM
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 12,307
Body in California/Heart in Ha...
syd Offline
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I have to confess to being a "walkthrough junkie". It all started when my buying got ahead of my playing. I am sitting with right around 300+/- unplayed games as we speak with more in tne wings just waiting to be bought. If I took months and months on each one I would be dead before I got through half of them and since I shelled out good money for them, I dang well am going to play them before I leave this earth laugh Besides which I have no patience - never did - just ask my family how patient I am after standing in line for about 5 minutes whistle


Dark Side : Risen
Light Side:

I can only please one person a day. Today isn't your day. Tomorrow's not looking good either.
Re: walkthroughs #119531
10/02/05 10:54 AM
10/02/05 10:54 AM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 311
Spain
Moogie Offline
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I look back to the days before I realized walkthroughs existed and can remember spending weeks over puzzles before I succeeded or gave up. Yes I use them, but make a point of never looking at them late at night when I have been playing for a while and am too tired to think straight; sometimes a night's sleep solves things. Once I have looked at a walkthrough I feel I've weakened and end up consulting them frequently. Some games I just know I would never solve without them.

Re: walkthroughs #119532
10/02/05 11:02 AM
10/02/05 11:02 AM
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 26,917
Stony Brook, New York, USA
Becky Offline
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Yes, I know the "it's 2AM, let me just peek at the walkthrough" temptation. Always a mistake. You're right -- waiting until morning when the brain is fresh can make a big difference.

Re: walkthroughs #119533
10/02/05 12:10 PM
10/02/05 12:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,453
Texas
nickie Offline
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Leeana, you are not stupid in the least! As you can see, lots and lots of folks use walkthroughs! Like Moogie, I remember well when walkthroughs weren't available, and spending so much time on a game. Sometimes I would even dream of solutions! But sometimes I would finally have to resort to the hotline via telephone - and I can tell you, I had some nasty high phone bills on occasion.


"How could drops of water know themselves to be a river? Yet the river flows on."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Re: walkthroughs #119534
10/02/05 12:26 PM
10/02/05 12:26 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 48,554
Alabama
looney4labs Offline
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Alabama
I love having WT's available to get me unstuck--I use them a lot more for some games than others. I prefer to finish a game on my own--but since I play for escape from real life, I prefer not to add to my life. Life does that perfectly well without help from game developers thumbsup -and the WT is always available--no waiting rotfl


"Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole."
-Roger Caras
Re: walkthroughs #119535
10/02/05 04:25 PM
10/02/05 04:25 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 553
Chattanooga Tennessee
Kaylalovesred Offline
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Sometimes I feel that the gamers make the games so challenging that they forget to include a storyline within the game. That is one reason that I enjoy games like ND, CSI, Sherlock Holmes, etc. I know that if I get stuck and really need a hint I can go to the game boards and find one. Of course sometimes when I am playing a game it just makes it easier if I go ahead and print out the walkthrough and then only use it with the parts I am stuck on. Unfortunatly for me that seems to be getting more common and common so having the walkthrough is a big frustration saver in my case.

Kem


Games and Puzzles come and go but my love for chocolate will always remain the same!!!
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