I'm sure we can go round and round. That is not something I care to do. I understand what both of you are saying (Jenny and Ana) but still think wearing the masks is simple enough and staying away from large crowds is too. AGAIN though, I am a homebody by nature so I understand this may be a lot easier for ME to say. If I was a person used to being out and about all the time I would maybe not be saying this.

I understand that staying home can then make things worse when you do go out because your body is no longer used to those everyday germs and I understand that many people who get this virus don't get deathly ill (that's a media thing only telling you the worst) but this thing apparently really does do some bad damage. Why not give the experts time to try to figure it out?

I admit that I do sort of feel that people are just going to have to venture out and see what happens before it runs it's course though.

oldbroad, I have no fear of it, but I respect it. I wear a mask in stores (because it's the law) . Not outdoors in nature or where not mandated. I have been to zero restaurants or large gatherings except family and we are doing the same. I see the same close friends and all our gatherings have been outside, including family. I am living my life, with a few common sense personal guidelines.

I guess here we're taking our cue from medical personnel who wear masks all day. There's got to be a reason they do that.

Also, both our doctor and oncologist have told us that masks are critical for my husband, and for me so I don't get infected and pass it on to him and our hospital is very clear about the requirement for masks if you're visiting for any reason. Obviously we follow our doctor's advice so for us it isn't a choice.

But there is still so little known about this virus it's tough to say how much we can prevent transmission via masks and distancing We do observe that when people congregate en masse without masks the outcome is a drastic increase in the number of cases a couple of weeks later. For most people it's okay, but for quite a few others there is death or permanent damage, and any time we can avoid that we should.

Personally, I am not willing to risk that for myself or my husband. I come from a family of long-lived ancestors on both sides and I fully intend to live long enough to be an argumentative old bag,

Well said, hagatha! Same here. I spent the night in the hospital a few weeks ago with another pulmonary embolism and both my personal physician and my attending physician warned me specifically about wearing a mask and not going anywhere where masks are not required. They stressed it quite strongly as being the best - if imperfect - way to prevent transmission until there is a vaccine. My doctor's building and my hospital don't allow you to even enter the premises without a mask and a temperature check. They even have a security officer walking the floors to make sure people keep them on. I had to wear a mask during my CT scan and a couple of other procedures. I don't particularly like them, but will continue to listen to my doctors as they know WAY more than I do. I also come from a line of long-lived women on both sides and plan on being here for a very long time myself. Being an argumentative old bag is just an extra plus!

Horribly obvious straight-line, must...not...comment.

Oh, c'mon, Trail! Live dangerously!

Yes, do tell , Trail...

I was just thinking that you're such a reasonable person, it would be somewhat surprising for you to turn into an argumentative old bag... Yeah, that's it.

Suuuuure, Trail... suuuuuure!

Yeah, that's the ticket.

BET, Were the parents and siblings tested? Not getting sick doesn't mean they aren't asymptomatic. It's my understanding that that's were a main concern lies. Unless a person is tested, and those tests are not being done regularly enough nor available to everyone, anyone could get asymptomatic. There is no cure for those whose bodies can't fight it off.

My bigger concern is that the death stats are not including people who have survived but now have life-altering conditions as a result.

The main one seems to be heart disease, even in some young people, but also it can affect other organs in the body including the brain. A recent study showed that the majority of survivors can have some kind of lingering condition. So just looking at the deaths doesn't really show the whole picture of the devastation this disease is causing:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/wor...ng-term-covid-19-health-issues-1.4318036

Because I know I'll end up alone at some point , I don't want to have to take care of myself hobbled by a heart condition.

There was an op-ed posted by a cardiologist this week that said myocarditis - inflammation of the heart - is showing up more and more in these "asymptomatic" and mildly symptomatic cases. A starting pitcher with the Red Sox had a mild case and was unable to pitch at training camp. Turns out he has heart damage. He also referenced that article in the Irish Times you linked to.

"An intriguing new study from Germany offers a glimpse into how SARS-CoV-2 affects the heart. Researchers studied 100 individuals, with a median age of just 49, who had recovered from Covid-19. Most were asymptomatic or had mild symptoms, while some were seriously ill. An average of two months after they received the diagnosis, the researchers performed M.R.I. scans of their hearts and made some alarming discoveries: Nearly 80 percent had persistent abnormalities and 60 percent had evidence of myocarditis. The degree of myocarditis was not explained by the severity of the initial illness." He cautions that this is an incomplete study, but that... "It makes clear that in young patients who had seemingly overcome SARS-CoV-2 it’s fairly common for the heart to be affected. We may be seeing only the beginning of the damage."

This cardiologist was currently treating a 50 year old man with zero underlying symptoms who contracted COVID. He locked himself in his room to recover, but by the time they got him to the ER, he had gallons of fluid in his legs. Not from lung involvement, but from myocarditis. He is currently being evaluated for a heart transplant.

As I've said before, this is a very scary virus... especially so for those of us for whom it would be a death sentence.

Everyone was tested. All negative except the 15 friends.

That doesn't tell me anything.
How many people who've never had COVID also have myocarditis and don't know it?

Unless you know that, you can't say COVID has anything to do with myocarditis.

If 30% of people who've never had COVID have myocarditis and 30% of people who have had COVID also have myocarditis, you can't say COVID made any difference.

It's been an ongoing investigation.

From the Harvard school of medicine back in April: https://hms.harvard.edu/news/coronavirus-heart
A formal publication from May in the National Library of Medicine: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7199677/
A more recent, but singular example from the Hartford Medical Group on Red Sox Pitcher Eduardo Rodriguez: https://hartfordhealthcaremedicalgr...-detail?articleid=25255&publicId=395

To be fair, anything that debunks or conradicts studies made by these organizations are scrubbed off the internet quicker than I can share them. There are two sides to this whole thing and one side is being kept from sharing their knowledge, studies and results.

I totally get that there are two-sides to every story and medical debate isn't exactly uncommon. There's bound to be changes in medical findings on both sides of the fence. If formal studies are being scrubbed from the Internet, the authors might want to look to where they are publishing them. If they are posting on social media as apposed to working through the usual avenues, they should probably find a more appropriate venue.

This particular issue though seems fairly logical. Viruses in general trigger our immune system, which is an immuno-response no matter how you look at it; inflammation is part of the response system. If something blocks the ability of the bodies response to back off on that particular aspect, or directly infects an internal organ (I've had personal experience with this, one reason why I'm high risk) then you're going to see issues. Both cases are quantifiable through testing. Sure, you're going to see a percentage of error caused by someone who had no clue they had a pre-existing issue, and while that may reduce the percentage of initial findings, it's not going to eliminate the cause. Actually, it's going to add to the data showing a segment of the population could be more prone to these types of impacts. You see studies adjusted all the time as the data continues to be accumulated and re-examined. That's what makes this legitimate scientific research.

Not to sound too snarky (kind of), but I mean, we have to understand that there's a very specific path to this type of research. They have very specific processes and procedures used by the many well founded and some of the most advanced medical institutions working through this. It's not a bunch of hacks, sitting around someone's living room with a child's chemistry set and a dime store microscope or some half-baked alchemists trying to turn lead to gold.

Sure, it's all a balance sheet, and we're still in the middle of the accounting, but if someone tells me a dark room I need to walk through has a floor full of broken glass, I'm gonna wear shoes when I walk through it.

Couldn't agree more, Trail. The path this virus is taking in our bodies is a constant learning process for the medical community. First they treated it as strictly an upper respiratory disease. Then the more bizarre damage started showing up - the cytokine storm, the heart damage, kidney damage, blood clots, strokes. I don't think there will be consistent medical findings and knowledge about this virus for a long time. My bottom line is that I'm going to assume my doctors know more than I do and I will listen to them, no one and nothing else. My COVID ICU nurse neighbor tells me that there is a LOT going on behind the scenes with constant changes in treatment and lots of meetings and communication within the medical community.

That's where I am. I stay home (which was my life style anyway, just more so now) and wear a mask if forced out, and severely limit who can be around me The experiences of my formerly super healthy 38 year old son who almost died from this convinced me that there would be no "almost" if I get it. I don't stay up nights terrified, but I am cautious.

I hope your son can recover from COVID completely, l4l. If I remember, you said he had significant possibly permanent lung damage.

Drac, he's had lots of tests. The good news is that there does not seem to be any heart damage, but sadly there are ongoing breathing problems. They can't find a reason for it other than Covid

i stay home with all this virus stuff going on. the only time i get out and leave the house is go to the doctor and thats a chore in its self. i have lots of problems walking up and down our out side steps. i can't wear a mask and the clinic where all our drs are gave me a face shield to use. hubby does all our shopping and even with his mask he doesn't like going any where . can't say i blame hime. hope everyone is doing well and staying as safe as they can