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Re: Dreamfall. Wow. [Re: oldmariner] #266305
01/21/08 12:46 PM
01/21/08 12:46 PM
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Here's a lot of speculation about our favorite girl. If you haven't played Dreamfall, don't read this!

Click to reveal..
OK, I'll weigh in with some ideas about how to resurrect April and let the rest of you decide how high on the "cheesy" scale they are.

One thing I'll make clear at the start is that I'm not in to metaphysical or metaphorical meanings of the term "save April" that occurs in Dreamfall. It may well be so, but that's not the way my thinking goes on the subject. The phrase, to me, means that the flesh-and-blood April is saved in a flesh-and-blood
way, even if it involves magic.

Let's also be clear on what happened. When playing Dreamfall one can at any point hit the pause key and stop the game where it is. Now, when they're all on the pier Varmon (the vermin!) gives Kian a last chance to save himself by telling him to kill April and we're then presented with four choices: yes, no, stall, bargain. I played each of these through and they all result in the same outcome: Kian doesn't do it and Varmon orders one of the soldiers to "Kill her!" and the soldier thrusts his pike into her. (By the way, the only difference in any of these options is in the dialog exchanges and, let me tell you, April
really has a smart mouth for someone in her position!). Anyway, I stopped the action repeatedly when the pike was thrust and a couple of times I got a pretty good picture of what happened. The blade is very long and thin, like a big razor blade, and it enters April about four inches to the right of her navel (i.e., her right side) and penetrates deeply enough so that there is some chance it partially went all the way through. The incision
starts about even with the navel and goes upward maybe a foot. That means multiple organ damage and massive internal bleeding. At that point April grabs her side, says "Oh" and tumbles back into the water.

That's what she has to be saved from. Although under stress she might be able to regain her shifting ability, I don't believe any of the suggestions that have been made about her shifting to an emergency room in Stark where she could be saved. I'm not medical, but I really don't think medical science is ever going
to advance to the point where someone who has been cut like that could be saved. Besides, what would that have to do with Zoe? Remember, we have to be able to account for why Zoe saves her. So, this would be too high on the cheesy scale for me.

OK, a better possibility is that April reaches the end of the pier, turns, and sees Zoe on the adjacent pier a ways over and realizes that she (April) is now in mortal danger (she knows that Zoe's mission is to save her), which is not what April was expecting when she went to the pier at Na'ane's urging. So, while
talking to Kian she moves some defensive apparatus into her midsection and isn't really stabbed, although it appears she is. It's possible, but I'd find such a resolution to be very cheesy indeed.

The only other way I can come up with right now is as follows. Na'ane is filled with despair over the betrayal she has committed, and she's in a position where she can see what's going on. She's reasonably expecting that April isn't going to be killed on the spot, because she knows that the people in power will want to make a public show of their prisoner and execute her publicly. I say that this is reasonable and Na'ane or anyone else would know this because it's in the interest of the authorities to do it this way. (April is the Scorpion
and is number one on the Azadi hit list; her role as the most troublesome guerilla leader is rather similar to the one played by Mel Gibson in Braveheart and, you'll recall, they made sure to make his execution public.)

However, Na'ane then notices Zoe on the pier across the way and this makes her (Na'ane) realize that April is in mortal danger right now, contrary to expectations. This actually gives Na'ane hope that she can do something at the present moment and she moves near the fatal pier where April is. When April falls into he water, Na'ane wades out and grabs her and then uses her magical power of last resort: she transfers April's wound to herself. This is a rather suicidal or self-sacrificial magical power, to say the last. So, April lives and Na'ane dies.

The outcome is then that April's faith is restored because she knows that there are forces working which do indeed consider her to be of high importance, so much so that they'd go to these lengths to save her. (As for what Gordon told April earlier, I discount that because I trust Gordon about as far as I can throw him). Also, in the future April would have an extreme advantage over the Azadi because they would all think that she was dead! She could then freely penetrate as much as possible into the Azadi power structure as she needed to in order to thwart their plans. She could, for example, take the place of the ambassador in the tower.

So, that's where I can take it right now. As I said above, I'll leave it to the rest of you to judge how cheesy this is. Especially the awesome Becky. You know, Becky, if you're reading this, I was always aware of your Name the Game thread (I'm a veteran lurker) but never played due to strong feelings of being chicken. I am amazed that you were able to do so much of that for so long. My compliments.


Last edited by RayBres; 01/21/08 08:29 PM. Reason: spelling, of course

ray
Re: Dreamfall. Wow. [Re: RayBres] #266336
01/21/08 01:52 PM
01/21/08 01:52 PM
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Hi RayBres,
Very interesting storyline that you wrote, I certainly like it, makes me feel as though April will get back to being her old self with the shifting power or whatever it is. Then everyone who was disappointed by Dreamfall can forget it. Now that you have saved April, how about Zoe? I liked her.


To love is to be happy with!
Re: Dreamfall. Wow. [Re: Tomer] #266372
01/21/08 02:38 PM
01/21/08 02:38 PM
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Finally I've been able to play this game. I say finally, not because I've really been keen to play this game "game wise", no because I have not been able "Specs wise".
smashpcUpgraded my old 64MB Video card and loaded more RAM.

Yesterday evening I saw the credits for Dreamfall fade away.

My thoughts: thinkAfter the previous game I did not have high expectations on this one. Dreamfall had the graphics and the story but besides that nothing more. I would like to call Dreamfall an Adventure Interactive Movie. On the other hand the story and how it was told managed to keep me interested all the way. This is one of the extremly rare adv games with total lack of challenge, that I actually grade 4/5 thumbsup. (I prefere more challenges) headscratch

Cheers


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Re: Dreamfall. Wow. [Re: Lagavulin] #266534
01/21/08 07:56 PM
01/21/08 07:56 PM
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I think I have to agree that Dreamfall had a lack of challenges. Fighting and sneaking are boring, not challenges. Even if I can't do them, so there.


To love is to be happy with!
Re: Dreamfall. Wow. [Re: sierramindy] #266537
01/21/08 08:03 PM
01/21/08 08:03 PM
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Des Plaines, Illinois
RayBres Offline
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I liked Zoe too, sierramindy, but my problem there is that I've got, at best, a very confused understanding of what her situation is at the end and really don't know how to proceed.


ray
Re: Dreamfall. Wow. [Re: sierramindy] #266542
01/21/08 08:10 PM
01/21/08 08:10 PM
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Ray, I like your last scenario.

I too thought it was almost like an interactive movie, but as I'm a "story" type person that was fine with me. I even managed to enjoy the sneaking (at least when it was logical). puppy


"Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole."
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Re: Dreamfall. Wow. [Re: Tomer] #266560
01/21/08 08:49 PM
01/21/08 08:49 PM
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Just curious. Am I wrong in thinking that producers of adventure games would be better served financially if they did not require computer specs so high that it rules out the majority of users from playing a game? I wonder how many of us don't have or are border line computer owners that are needed to play this game.

Re: Dreamfall. Wow. [Re: Duststorm] #266568
01/21/08 09:09 PM
01/21/08 09:09 PM
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I'm all speculated out!

Ray, I agree with Sierra on your plot idea. But I will add CHEEZY is acceptable to me if I get what I want in the next game. I don't get what I want I won't be playing.

Loony, I'm with you, it's story and characters for me. I don't care about puzzles and at times less is better.

Dust, An interesting point. I suspect it began with FPS where the high res and action are supreme. Kind of like "my graphics" are better than yours. I ask how many ways do you need to find to kill something? Those little pacman dots got boring quick. Are there any FPS/Action games circa 1990 that get the high props accorded to low res Gabriel Knight 1? So no story, no developed characters requires constant upgrade in high res etc. Just my humble opinion. Adventure games are brought kicking and screaming into that. Though I will say Dreamfall was a pleasure to look at it was still a lesser game than TLJ. Yes I too enjoy the better graphics but I could live with the quality of TLJ, BS1. Keep the good stories and characters worry less about high res. But that's not how the corporate world works. It ties into another opinion of mine about high def TV, who cares there is too little on to pay 1000's to watch.

Last edited by oldmariner; 01/21/08 09:12 PM.
Re: Dreamfall. Wow. [Re: oldmariner] #266599
01/21/08 11:27 PM
01/21/08 11:27 PM
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Stony Brook, New York, USA
Becky Offline
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Interesting ideas, RayBres! :save:

Maybe if developers create a game with high system specs, that ensures that people keep playing the game for years as they gradually upgrade their computers? laugh There seem to be a lot of gamers who have just played this game.

Re: Dreamfall. Wow. [Re: Becky] #267089
01/22/08 06:01 PM
01/22/08 06:01 PM
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Des Plaines, Illinois
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I've always thought that GK3 tanked in the marketplace because of too-high specs for its day (1999). I had a pretty up-to-date computer back then and really had a difficult time getting through the game because of graphics difficulties. I wasn't able to play it really well until I got my next computer.


ray
Re: Dreamfall. Wow. [Re: Tomer] #269052
01/26/08 11:21 AM
01/26/08 11:21 AM
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I just finished playing Dreamfall last night and feel compelled to join in this discussion and throw in my two cents...for what it's worth.

I really enjoyed Dreamfall, not as much as it being a "game" but a story. It had a fantastic storyline and great characters. The depth of the story and the atmosphere, the locations, everything was amazing.

That said, I had some issues with the game:
* I never did get a firm handle on the controls. I played with a Sidewinder gamepad and it was difficult to move the characters around. Poor Zoe looked like she was drunk half the time, zig and zagging around. She never could walk a straight line.
* I could never find a happy medium with the camera angles either.
* While I didn't mind the battle sequences, I would have preferred to do without.
* The game needed more puzzles.

I prefer a more traditional point and click adventure game, filled with interesting places to explore, lots of places to click, lots of puzzles to solve, fun characters and depth to the storyline. But I enjoyed this game immensely. It was different, unique and terribly interesting. I can't wait for the sequels. The game left so many unanswered questions...

Gail

Re: Dreamfall. Wow. [Re: gkgame] #269160
01/26/08 03:00 PM
01/26/08 03:00 PM
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Do you guys think the next game will feel similar, gaming-wise? I really hope they take heart to all of the fans' requests and make it much harder, with a bit less action, and more puzzles and thinking.
Other than that - I want everything to remain just the same - a deep intruiging story and characters with 3-dimentional depth!
Oh, it would also be nice to include some cut-scenes in improved graphics, like in Still Life and many other games. They're really fun to watch and serve as a "treat" for solving something, or progressing a lot.


There's definitely definitely definitely no logic to human behaviour.
Re: Dreamfall. Wow. [Re: Tomer] #269222
01/26/08 05:51 PM
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Tomer -- I hope you're right. I hope the developers do take these suggestions to heart. I can't wait to see.

Oh and Becky...I did just play Dreamfall after getting a faster laptop with a better graphics card. I didn't even try buying the game when it came out because I knew it would never run on my old machine. I found the game at Gamestop a couple of months ago for $9.99. It worked great with the faster computer.

I just hope they don't keep increasing the specs with future adventure games. I won't be buying a new system anytime in the near future. I just caught up! lol

Gail

Re: Dreamfall. Wow. [Re: gkgame] #269236
01/26/08 06:24 PM
01/26/08 06:24 PM
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It's nice to catch up, isn't it?

Re: Dreamfall. Wow. [Re: Jenny100] #311468
04/15/08 11:20 PM
04/15/08 11:20 PM
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I just finished Dreamfall and I'm confused. Presumably future games will explain the ending.


Currently Playing:
Adventure Game: Broken Age
Darkside: Star Wars: The Old Republic
Re: Dreamfall. Wow. [Re: GuybrushThreepwood] #311747
04/16/08 12:03 PM
04/16/08 12:03 PM
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I only played about half of this game. I got tired of trying to control character movements. I could not get through the fight sequences. One of the reasons I like point and click games is that because of neck/back injuries my hands do not always do what I want them to. So, there I am trying to do a fight scene and my hands spasm; I'm trying to get the character to move using the controls and, again, my hands spasm.
I agree that the game is beautiful, but I simply could not play. Waste of money.


If you can spend a perfectly useless afternoon in a perfectly useless manner, you have learned how to live.
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Re: Dreamfall. Wow. [Re: Syndalee] #311751
04/16/08 12:18 PM
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Hi Syndalee, I'm sorry that you were unable to finish the game through injury. I'm not sure whether this may help but the game is gamepad compatible - also perhaps if you posted on hints you may be able to get save games to get you past the action parts. smile

Re: Dreamfall. Wow. [Re: chrissie] #335200
05/28/08 03:42 PM
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May be useful may not be (I've yet to play "Dreamfall" myself) but there was a recent post on Quandary about better handling the controls in "Dreamfall" here.

Re: Dreamfall. Wow. [Re: Kickaha] #335282
05/28/08 05:54 PM
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My two cents into the discussion:

I agree completely that the game has its flaws, although it is among my current favorites, possibly my top 10. Yes, the puzzles are too easy, and because of this, it progressed very quickly and lost some of the power an epic story usually conveys. I was, however, completely engrossed by the game, and it made up for me in emotional, intellectual, and artful storytelling (for an adventure game), what it lost in actual game play.

I have always been bewildered by individuals who state they like to just explore during a game and look at the scenery. I can understand it but have personally rarely felt that way. Dreamfall made me understand the desire to just explore in a game. When most adventure games have clearly smaller budgets than more mainstream games, I am very thankful that someone took the time to make such a beautiful and detailed environment.

Most importantly to me, is that I feel that the authors truly care about their story and tell it with passion. If want you want to find symbolism in this game, it is there everywhere. If you want a clear "conflict and resolution (or in this case cliffhanger)," you have three to enjoy with the different main characters. Both good and evil in this game are developed and complex in this game. Many characters are so developed, and at times flawed, that I want to witness their development. Want to discuss racial divides, religious disputes, troubled youth, loss of individual direction, faith, desire for omnipotence, or success, choosing between family and career? They are all there.

It is very interesting to me to read this thread and see all of the involved discussion, pro and con, about the game. The fact that a "flawed" game can elicit such interest is a tribute to its excellence.

btw, am I the only one who liked the Kian sections of the game? I was waiting for his story and "conversion" to turn sour and go a little "over the top," but I enjoyed it and am eager to play more. wave

Re: Dreamfall. Wow. [Re: Syndalee] #335508
05/29/08 07:54 AM
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I think the game is well worth playing even if you have to ask for saved games, I am not very coordinated, also tone deaf and when playing some games I need help but don't give up if otherwise I like the game.

I also had problems with the controls and had to change the default controls to avoid getting frustrated every time I needed to run or do something in a hurry.

I like some fighting with the option of sneaking, I am not too good at fighting but I only found one fight too tough (against the guy in the “hotel”) and sneaking him was not easy either because it had to be carefully timed. However, I think that when an Adventure game has fighting, timed or sound puzzles, the box somehow should warn the buyers.

I enjoyed the first lock puzzles but after a couple they started to be too repetitive and long.

I liked the game even when not as much as TLJ until ...

Click to reveal..
...the end, I don’t like sad endings. I am assuming (wishful thinking really) April, who didn’t looked the same person as in TLJ (physically or mentally) shifted to the other world as consequence of the shock of being “killed” and somebody saved her there or something like RayBress mentions happens. Also, of course, that Zoe comes out of the comma.


I also hope the next "chapter" comes soon, part of my disappointment was due to the long wait that raised my expectations.


If real is what you can feel, smell, taste and see, then 'real' is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain

From The Matrix
Re: Dreamfall. Wow. [Re: Jenny100] #336121
05/30/08 12:12 PM
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I just finished Dreamfall and it gave me mixed feelings.
The graphics was pretty, the story was interesting, the characters are memorable, yes. With a wireless Xbox controller for windows installed I can play the game in comfort while sitting on my bed with a walkthough on my pillow. Sneaking and Fighting segments were acceptable. I also do not mind the lengthy expositions that make the game appear to me more like a movie than a game. However there is still much I dislike about Dreamfall...

First, I worry that Ragnar has painted himself into a corner after all the rollercoasters that he put the characters through in the second game and that no amount of plausible plot tweaking could save the story. With the episodes coming, the story could continue to go downhill and we will have all kinds of continuity errors and unexplained events that we have encountered in Dreamfall and TLJ1.

Secondly, the weak opening. I tried to share the game with a close friend but I totally lost him after the lengthy Brian Westhouse monologue and the confusing Undreaming gets Brian in the storytime weird scenario (followed by the slightly less confusing scene with the lengthy Zoe monologue where she is in a coma.) The really confusing begining about Brian Westhouse was never explained at all even by the end of the game even though Brian appears in the middle of the game. I wonder if Ragnar had any idea where this was going or Funcom simply decided to go ahead to release this whole mess without any change because of way too much budget spent animating and recording audio for the opening.

Thirdly my fave peeve about the game was the numerous game loading interludes. Just getting from Zoe's house to the gym we have at least 3 such interludes. It is all shoddy programming to me. And what about the install program running whenever autorun detects the DVD in my drive, and that no patch has been put up by Funcom over two years? Guess what Funcom is doing now? They seem to be pooling resources to work on Age of Conan, some online action rpg I guess.

In conclusion I'm sorry to say that the future of this great game just simply looks too bleak to me. Maybe we should start bugging Ragnar on his blog. I don't want this game to die quietly after years of anticipation like GK3 or Tex Murphy Overseer did. I would feel really cheated if this happens.

Re: Dreamfall. Wow. [Re: Benedict] #336149
05/30/08 01:28 PM
05/30/08 01:28 PM
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Becky Offline
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Hi Benedict -- I agree with you about the frequent load screens. I suspect this was due to planning the game from the beginning to release on both the PC and the Xbox, but that didn't make me like those load screens any better.

I want to see the story (actually, stories) resolved in Dreamfall Chronicles too. I trust Mr. Tornquist as a writer and storyteller -- I think he's one of the best in gaming. I don't think he's painted himself into a corner. My only fear is that the success of Conan will put Dreamfall Chronicles on a back shelf so that it never does get produced.

How much is Dreamfall selling for these days? Do you feel that you got your money's worth?

Re: Dreamfall. Wow. [Re: Becky] #336235
05/30/08 04:24 PM
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Tel Aviv, Israel.
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I definitely do, but that's rather obvious cause I started this thread smile


There's definitely definitely definitely no logic to human behaviour.
Re: Dreamfall. Wow. [Re: Tomer] #336464
05/31/08 06:08 AM
05/31/08 06:08 AM
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Dreamfall really haunted me. What an excellent game! Magic, magic, magic. Anxious to see the third part!


....set the controls for the heart of the sun....
Re: Dreamfall. Wow. [Re: Taurnil] #337647
06/02/08 09:47 AM
06/02/08 09:47 AM
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More, very recent information here on Ragnar Tornquist's blog.

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