As I look at my enormous pile of new adventure games that I have yet to play, I am seeing fewer and fewer adventure games that have major puzzles as the basis of game play. Most are based on dialogue and inventory puzzles for the game play. What I want is another game like Sentinel, Myst, The 11th Hour, Aura, etc. I realize there is another Aura coming soon, and there are similar games like Rhem that are puzzle based, but these seem to be fading from my adventure game choices.
I am curious, do you think these type of games are moving into the casual game genre? Has the many criticisms of gamers with a dislike of sliders, mazes, etc, caused makers to be wary of adding difficult puzzles or basing games on them?
While I like almost every type of game, I miss those impossible puzzles! Bring on the sliders, mazes, and multi-step puzzles!

I love sliders, any puzzles, just not mazes. I agree they seem to be less. They are not going the way of casual games though, they just aren't around much it seems.

Ana

I enjoy and want more of every kind of puzzle (Except the Lock-pick puzzle in Still Life)

I am very glad to see that there are at least three of us who like these puzzles in our adventure games.
I am curious what you all think, though. Is there a reason we are not seeing these type of games (or these puzzles in our games? Are they considered bad to put in games (I think this is part of it actually)?
Have Casual games focused the genre of adventure games to more inventory based development?
Or, is it just a momentary lull for these types of games?

orchgamer, take a look at the demo I just released of The Filmmaker. It is an upcoming puzzle-based adventure in the same vein as games you seem to like.

If you mean first person puzzlers, then there seem to have been a lot less of them since the 1990's. But good ones were never very common. Detalion developed Schizm, Schizm 2, and Sentinel from 1999 (Reah) up through 2004 (Sentinel), but they went bust after that. It is a shame that Detalion isn't around and making puzzle type games any more. (The developers who worked for Detalion seem to have either gone into developing 3rd person "story-centric" games (City Interactive) or are developing non-adventures.)

One reason I enjoyed "Dracula Origin" so much was that even though it was a 3rd person game, it included many puzzle types that aren't usually found in adventure games anymore.

Puzzlewise, I did not think "Sacred Rings" (2007) was a fitting sequel to "Aura" (2004) at all, and I have doubts about whether the 3rd in the series will be any better than the 2nd. Streko-Graphics put more effort into the story (which I didn't care about in that game anyway) and let the puzzling part slide. They paid too much attention to people who complained about puzzles not being "integrated with the story" and took out almost all of the fun types of puzzles. That's my opinion of it anyway. (The best puzzles in "Sacred Rings" were in the 3rd part (in that ugly beat-up castle where many areas were too dark to see), but that part (besides being ugly and dark) was also full of sudden death sequences which were a pain in the ...)

The 2006 Safecracker was a lot of fun, but I don't know if Kheops will make any more like that. As far as (relatively) recent games go, it's the closest to games like Jewels of the Oracle, Jewels 2 (Gems of Darkness), Shivers, and 7th Guest that I can think of (unless you count the casual game Azada).

Someone at JA+ was so desperate for puzzles they actually ordered Treasure Quest -- an old game from 1996 that's said to be impossible because of very vague puzzle clues. I don't know if it's got the type of puzzles you (and me) are looking for though. From what little I could find about it, it sounded like it relied on riddles. And if I want riddles done right, I can replay the Fool's Errand game (and Cliff Johnson's other games).

Casual games tend to be too "easy" puzzlewise. "Azada" was fun, and had a nice variety of puzzles. But it was on the easy side, catering to casual gamers who aren't really used to tough puzzles. The only casual game I can think of that was really challenging puzzlewise was "Rooms - The Main Building," which consisted of sliders. Usually puzzles in casual games exist as part of hidden object games and are referred to as "mini-games." Azada is the only casual puzzle collection I've played. Unfortunately they made it more "difficult" by adding a timer, but that is definitely not how I want my difficulty increased. I haven't played "3 Cards to Midnight" yet. I've seen it criticized for not being an adventure game, but the puzzles may be decent. I think Bejewelled-type games (and similar "Match 3" types) are considered puzzle games, but they're not really what I'm looking for when I think of a puzzle game. I'd like something like Safecracker 2006 or the old Jewels of the Oracle, etc., where there are a variety of puzzle types.

There are a few upcoming games that may be good for puzzles if you enjoy Myst types. If you like games like Barrow Hill, Rhiannon, or Outcry, there will be more from those developers. There will be another RHEM game, though I don't know if we'll see more from that developer after RHEM 4. Except for RHEM 4, I think these are all ghost story/horror/supernatural types though.


Even that one would be OK if it was something you could bring up and work on when you felt like it -- instead of having the whole game held up while you tried to figure it out. In a game like "Shivers" or "7th Guest," if you were stuck on a puzzle you could go work on another one.

I'll have to check out The Filmmaker when it's released.
http://www.unimatrixproductions.com/filmmaker/

For me the biggest attraction to adventure games was the puzzles. I know it's not for everyone but nothing was more satisfying than to work for hours on a truly well designed puzzle. For me, it's always been about the challenge and I do miss it. I understand that there are not many of us out there and therefore fewer games are geared towards this. I miss Detalion dearly. I will be getting "The Filmmaker" as well.
Mordack

Hi, orchgamer ...

I personally think puzzle type game's should stay out of adventure games...

(1)..No match 3
(2)..No solitaire
(3)..No Sliders
(4)..No Match the cards...ETC....ETC...

Puzzles belong in the casual game play....

My opinion...

I've never played an adventure game with match-3 or solitaire puzzles, sliders, yes. I really do not think hard puzzles belong in adventure games (easy ones, okay) because working a puzzle is not like exploring and adventure-seeking. It takes a whole different mind-set to like the hard puzzles (Myst and such) and they belong in their own genre, methinks, maybe they should be called "Challenge Games"?

Maybe people who think computer games are childish might get hooked on a game that claims to be a challenge!

If you don't mind a few timed challenges, Gobliins 4 is a serious puzzler that will give even the experts some challenging moments.

Nice post, Jenny100. You just about summed up my feelings too.
I frequent 3 Adventure games forums, and I have to say that us puzzler-types are in the minority. There seems to be a lot of talk lately about about story and incorporating more realistic challenges in the games. Unfortunately (for me), that usually translates to inventory, dialogue or action type puzzles. I play adventures for the puzzles, and am sorely missing the variety of available games that interest me. I have turned to casual games to fill the void, but they are rarely challenging enough.
I do believe that it is probably harder to make a good puzzle adventure like Rhem, than it is to come up with an inventory/dialogue based game, but as I am not a developer I may stand to be corrected. I thank goodness for all the indie developers out there that are still supplying us puzzlers with games, because the bigger budget game makers don't seem to be interested in that type of game anymore.

Puzzles are a substitute for story. The more puzzles, the less story, the less adventure. The great adventure games have few puzzles.

Thank you all for the comments and suggestions. I have a few new games to consider and will move Dracula Origin near the top of my pile!

I suppose in one sense I should complain so much as I do like all kinds of games (including shooters) but I am a 98% Adventure Gamer and usually love it. I like to switch from different types of adventures (some more dialogue and story centric and at times puzzles within the story). It just that after the last few games I played only involved finding inventory items and placing them in the correct screen or hotspot. Some of the stories were nice and the artwork was good too. I just wish there was something that challenged me and allowed me to PLAY. Myst, Shivers, and The 7th Guest have plenty of exploration, mood, and story, but don't have to rely only on dialogue and inventory to get you through the game.

Even older games like Monkey Island which was mostly inventory and dialogue, at least made puzzles within that context. I remember one (don't know which part) where you had to manipulate the results of a diving match and another where there was a duel of insults (I know people disliked this but I loved it!).

Jenny, I liked Outcry, and Barrow Hill was OK (did anyone else laugh uncontrollably when you watched the video of the rock at the gas station???), but I want more challenge.

Part of the adventure for me, like Mordack I think, was that I had great things to solve, discover, and infer. I am just worried that I am going to begin losing interest in most of the new games because I am tired of the same thing.

Anyone else here who loves the difficult puzzles? I would like to hear from you all!


I just read the response from Gobobby and would like to respectfully disagree. Puzzles, for me, add to the entertainment of the game and often retain my interest in the story as I feel like I am doing more or contributing more to the game. If I want just a great story, I can read a book or view a movie. We play adventure games because we are PLAYING. The puzzles are a very important part of that playing to me.

Each gamer will of course have their own favorites, but while I would argue that Myst, Black Dahlia, and even Sentinel belong in the great adventure games, even games I mentioned in my last post, like the Monkey Island games at least made puzzles within the dialogue and action which gave us something to accomplish.

I also miss the puzzle based games. I don't think the puzzles are a distraction from the story if they are a logical part of the story. I'm currently replaying The Omega Stone (great game in my opinion) and my son and I were just lamenting the fact that they don't make adventure games like they used to. The very first 3 games I played were The Dig, Shivers, and Myst. Those 3 are my gold standard that I measure all other games against.

I thought insult sword fighting was one of the popular puzzles. I think what people really didn't like was the Monkey Kombat in Escape From Monkey Island.


and here I thought I was the only one.
( But I liked the rest of the game. )

I miss those games to Orchgamer. I don't care for lots of dialogue and inventory puzzle. Wouldn't another Myst be wonderful!

You may want to try todays release on BigFish called Big Brain Wolf. It appears to be a good puzzler. If you decide to try it, post your thoughts here please.

Ana

Puzzle games have always been my favorite games.

How interesting this topic is!! Is this why I have lost interest in adventure games in recent years? There is definitely a group here who thinks like I do, Myst, Obsidian, Timelapse, Shivers, Omega Stone, The Dig, etc. are the type of games I want. Don't give me match 3 puzzles...give me something that requires thinking and is integrated into the storyline. Yeah, even those danged sliders that open secret doors like in Timelapse!!!

Hmm, I don't know how one can compare The Dig and Myst. I played and enjoyed The Dig and liked the characters and the story. As for Myst, I did try to play it and made no progress whatsoever and was completely bored by it (all those books with charts and stuff that were supposed to be clues of some kind) and although the graphics were exceptionally nice (especially for that time) I returned the game (that was possible back in the day) and exchanged it for Gabriel Knight 2: The Beast Within, which turned out to be a great game. That's adventure!

Has any one tried the small artistic first-person adventure games made in Flash by Pastel Games? There's plenty of Myst-like puzzles to be found there. But inventory puzzles too.

Now that I think about it there are lots of truly great little freeware games that have this kind of puzzler puzzles. Look up Today I die (it's a bit of a surreal puzzle game with word associations) or Little Wheel (more traditional mechanical ones).

I think perhaps the word 'adventure' means different things to different people.. for some it is exploring an area/world and its puzzles..for others it might be the adventure of a 'new' puzzles (brain-flex is what i call it) that demand to be solved in an exploring manner. I'm not sure i am expressing myself well but maybe you guys understand. It's like for me-trying to hobble out to my car and make it is an Adventure..for someone else, flying a fighter jet is the Adventure! We all like something..and thankfully not always the same things (how boring!)..

Here is a great detailing of what an Adventure Game is.

I looked and found "Little Wheel". It takes about 10min. to complete and is on par with topic reference but doesn't fulfill that craving I so desire.
Hello, Mr.Müller...you busy sir?

Love all these great comments. Thanks everyone.

Jenny, you are correct about the monkey battles. That is what I meant (and loved that part too). Good to know someone else found the video hilarious too...

I would like, if possible, to hear from some developers about their choice of using puzzles in adventure games. Do you avoid many puzzles and sliders, mazes, etc. because you believe most gamers will not buy them? I am start to feel like I need to speak more for puzzles when developers ask opinions. There seem to be a number of us who want them but I don't recall seeing this requested often.

I certainly hope that this lack of type of adventure game is only a temporary issue!