General observations or maybe I'm just ranting...

For the second time in three days, I'm quitting a game (something I'm loathe to do), because I absolutely cannot get past some "mini" game or "puzzle" that requires that I do something very quickly (timed puzzle or quick reflexes), or that I do something in a very specific way within a space of a few pixels that I have to find again (very quickly!) every time I move my cursor. I search for patterns in these exercises, I am patient as I can be, I ask/look for strategies. Alas, no go.

This is not the first two games I couldn't finish for that reason. One of the Nancy Drew games I never finished because the final section was one of these minigames. I suspect it is very possible that the newest Nancy Drew game will have these same elements, so, um, yipee?!

Other people are able to get past these sections of the games (obviously, because they finish the games), and they even may find them easy. Is it an age thing? Or is it something else?

And I don't want someone else's saved game. I want to be able to do it for myself. I can do most/all the non-timed things by myself, why not these? I guess what stinks about all this, is it isn't that the games are not good games. They are. Which is why I am disappointed - I will not see the end of these good games. Because of one section.

Disappointed, but I would like to hear your thoughts on this. I won't take anything personally...unless you say "well, I think you're functionally a little slow" then, maybe I'll get to thinking, and finally, after much slow thought, stick my old slow self in the Sunday crosswords, never to click a mouse in pursuit of an inventory item again.

I agree Shaggy, I do not care for any action or timed segments in my adventure games. I don't get why they put them in. I can do most, but my son has finished a few others for me. If I had to, I'd take a saved game rather than not see the ending.

Ana

Hi Shaggy -- I find tricky timed sequences to be frustrating, even if I do eventually "beat" them. No reward is good enough for the constant repetition it sometimes takes to finally get by them.

I think the developers put them in to add "tension" or perhaps to increase the drama or add to the sensation of realism.

There are gamers out there who like them, I'm assuming, since we see them over and over.

I am with you, Shaggy. In fact I have stopped buying the Nancy Drew games because of these "speed" sections. I have missed the ending of two Nancy Drew games because I have to be fast and have a quick reflex to see who is the criminal or to catch the m. A saved game cannot be used for the ending. I have been a Nancy Drew game fan since the late 90's when I started buying them as soon as they came out each year. The first few Nancy Drew games did not have these timed parts and I have even played them a second time which I do not do very often. I have used saves from other Gameboomers including our wonderful MaG, but I would rather finish the mini games myself.

Thanks for bringing this matter up. I admire you for starting this post and I hope that Her Interactive and other adventure game developers see it and make a way for those of us who hate timed and quick reflex puzzles to either skip them or have another way to get past them.

Good discussion Shaggy!

I've quit a couple of games recently too, and it was due to the timed parts. I will never quit a game because I can't solve a puzzle, but the timed segments really ruin the mood for me. Here I am sleuthing along and doing some deep thinking and wham! I have to stop thinking logically and rush to get something done.

I play dark side games and I love them, so it's not an inability to to do timed things. It just does not make sense to ruin a lovely detective mood.

I don't think it's an age thing, I think it's a preference. And as a detective, I prefer not to be rushed!

I intensely dislike action in adventure games too - but like BrownEyedTigre I would accept a saved game rather than not be able to carry on.
IF I liked the rest of the adventure of course !!

I have noticed the trend in many areas for constantly raising the bar higher and stiving for greater thrills, not only in games but in drugs, alcohol, speed of cars, A lot of the developers and game designers are of this younger generation who are constantly striving for the greater thrill, scare, experience and a greater drain on the brain in the name of progress and improvement. I am of the older generation and am not seeking greater thrills all the time. I like to be challenged however, the tried and true good story line, untimed puzzles, greater option to skip or take a lower level of difficulty is needed for us. We have spent most of our life striving for the better job, better house, better car, more safe investments to protect our old age. We have tired of the constant competition, for most of us in our twilight years want to relax and have fun. So you have not gotten old and denser just want to enjoy smelling the roses more. The games are not designed in the fashion they used to be. They are striving for quantity and loosing the quality. Don't get me wrong there have been a lot of wonderful games in the last couple of years, the progress in graphics, technology and special effects are great.

I think the puzzles can be creative, innovative and varied without adding the nearly impossible timed sequences without the option of using a easier level for those who choose it.

Just one opinion and observation by me. So ShaggyMia you are not alone in you feelings and just keep enjoying those games that bring out the things you want for your life style.

I like action games, and don't mind a bit of action in my adventure, but I do get stroppy sometimes when these things appear. In some adventure games they might add to the tension, but on many occassions they just seem like lazy filler. The design is also important - if you can nut out the solution and its a question of then performing that solution before eg the bomb goes off that is one thing; if its simply a question of reaction time or dexterity, thats entirely different.
The good thing is there are plenty that don't include these elements for those that prefer not to do them.
And I would agree that getting a save game is preferable to not seeing the end in most games. Its arguably no different than peeking at a walkthrough now and then.

Shaggy did you try playing the Nancy Drew game in Junior level? That is suppose to be easier. i agree I don't see the need for timed puzzles in Adventure games.

I don't like action/arcade in adventure games. But I have to admit that finding out what to do before getting caught, in some cases can add to the tension or atmosphere. I believe even the praised Tex Murphy games had some of that.
I gave up on Koala Lumpur and Dust because of the arcade bits.
Never played a Nancy Drew game though, or Next Life (that seems to have them too).

So what games did you not finish because of the timed/reflex puzzles?

I play mostly adventure, hog and i-hog games. If I find there is a timer on it, I don't buy it. I like to take my time in doing my games, and enjoying them, and that dreaded timer just takes all the fun out of it.

Hi Shaggy. Don't know how old you are and don't think that's the problem. I personally know about people old enough to be my grandparents who game. Maybe it's the Nancy games (I stopped playing them because I don't think it's necessary to be able to sew a dress to solve a crime, or do some other lame mini game...) You don't buy the game for the mini game, so why even go there? I've played some Nancies (as I call them) that were very good, but not recently. The last one I remotely liked had her out west learning to ride a horse. I finished that one, but not the one it came packaged with. I also have that one about the designer and that one's just loitering on my pc, but not for long. Try a newer mouse and see if that helps you speed-wise for more fun games, and read the reviews first, that helps a lot. But don't buy a game that makes you feel 'OLD' and frustrated. It's a waste of your money and valuable time.

I know that if I had been playing computer games in my 20s, I'd have felt just the same then as I do now: A strong distaste for speed-clicking & other mindless time-wasting 'fillers'.

It's not age-related. Some people are 'wired' to like that kind of game play. I'm not. I'm happier using reasoning skills at my own pace.

I honestly thought my mouse was going to break (not an exaggeration) while trying to speed-click 'spray' all the wasps in ND:Crystal Skull... and now I'm done with ND after having given her this 2nd chance. No more of that series for me.

There are British and Swedish adventures which are more to my liking (thanks to Jon.Boakes, MattClark, MikaelNyqvist.. & their teams).

I always hate when game developers try to "revolutionize" gameplay of a particular genre. Try to make adventure games more "active" to try and appeal to a bigger audience. So companies have done tat with action games as well, toning down the action to get more people interested in the game.

Usually in doing so they sometimes alienate their core audience who have come to expect certain things as standard in the genre.

It's a shame really. And the best thing you can do is post your woes on the games forum or send an email directly to the developer and complain. At worst you'll be ignored, at best they may actually consider you request if others feel the same way.

I like my action, but if it's a point and click adventure style game, leave out the timed sequences...I p[lay adventure games because I am NOT in a hurry. Since I am a guy tho, I haven't ever touched a ND game, so I don't know about them.

Adventure games should be free of anxiety and pressure, if only because every other genre is based on anxiety and pressure of some sort.
If they do include such timed tests they shouldn't be necessary to continue the game or to finish exploring every nook and cranny possible. Timed-anythings should be an add on with no benefit to completing the test except personal satisfaction (no hidden scenes or superior endings or anything like that), otherwise a great number of people will be filled with dismay and resentment every time they so much as think of the game.
At the very least they can make such tests optional in some way.

I have to agree with all of you. I always read the reviews and the first thing I look for is if it has timed actions. Having said that there are games I would have missed if I had condemed them out of hand eg Return to Mystery Island and Necrodamus. Both very good games in my mind. I don't think it is about age altho our refexes do slow a bit. Maybe its more to do with being a thinker or an action person, some are both but me I'm just a thinker.

Old lady -- do you mean Nostradamus? Yes, I remember that ending timed sequence well!

Yes you'r right Becky I only got thro it using the w/t.
I have to agree with other about Nancy Drew I enjoyed some of the earlier games but then they got too fast for me.

I agree. Several years ago when we first started discussing gameplay changes in the ND series, I believe HerInteractive was made aware of it. I think some GBers may have written to HI to express these concerns. The impression I got (if memory serves) was that HI had already decided and mapped out this new direction & wasn't about to change it. Of course, the message was merely implied... not directly expressed in these terms.

I'm another Nancy Drew fan who sadly no longer buys the games purely because of the increase in the arcade type timed sections and the vast number of chores that suddenly started appearing

I much preferred the original Nancy who concentrated on her "detecting"

I still have a core selection of the games from the era I liked, which I can re-play any time, so I'm not altogether "Nancyless"

Actually one of the first Nancy Drew games did have a timed sequence that was so bad they had to release a patch that disabled the timer.

That was in the second Nancy Drew game -- Stay Tuned for Danger.
I remember all the complaints about it.

I can't think of any Nancy Drew game that doesn't have some timed sequence or other in it, though the difficulty varies.
They spoiled a perfectly good puzzle in Phantom of Venice by making it timed -- the one with the pressure gauges.

I don't like timed puzzles much either. However, I realize that both in Zork: Nemesis as well as in Shivers 2: Harvest of Souls there were timed puzzles. Not a lot of them, but these puzzles did fit well into the story and were integrated well into the game's narrative.

Just like the timed puzzle(s) in (the demo of) Nikopol made sense, I've thought. And you had ample and enough time to solve this puzzle, even if you didn't have very fast reflexes. It wasn't like one of the timed puzzles in Zork: Nemesis in which you had to grab a device, run with it, throw it into a safe tank - before it explodes - all in the matter of maybe 30 seconds.

However, the two mini-games in the demo of Return to Mysterious Island 2 were not that fun at all, at least to me. Thankfully, there were easy modes available at some points during these mini-games.

If adventure games have timed sequences in them, (or some action sequences in them), I would still buy them. I fully understand why other people don't by them, though. As said, I don't mind neither timed sequences or action sequences if they make sense in the game's narrative. Bad puzzle design where the timed sequences are not part of the game's narrative, I really don't like.

A timed sequence can add a feeling of suspense to the game. In Nikopol, for instance, I understand there are many timed sequences, which I think is reasonable in this game; you're on the run after all. In other games, timed sequences don't work out like this.

And the one mentioned above, the pressure gauge in the ND game Phantom of Venice, does indeed seem to be an example of a timed sequence put in the wrong place by (some) bad game or level design.

This has been a very interesting discussion - thanks for posting your thoughts!

And to answer HandsFree's question: I had to quit Return to Mysterious Island 2, because I could not get past the monkeys (pea-shooting). I tried to shoot when they were standing, crouching, every combination, and alas no luck. The other game was Paradise, and trying to catch the sand daubers - but I finally got past that one.

And I have played all the Nancy Drew games on Junior for the very reason that the twitch and timed puzzles will possibly be easier to manage.

Have fun gaming!

I have come here on several occasions asking for a saved game because I simply can't get past a timed sequence. I don't mind asking and someone ALWAYS helps out. I am just relieved to be past the obstacle! I have no pride