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Re: Is URU the Most Disappointing Game Ever? #118106
01/05/04 02:54 PM
01/05/04 02:54 PM
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lasanidine Offline
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It is interesting to note that most of the complaints about Uru come from people who either did not buy the game or could not play it on their computers. Some complaints came from people who did dip into the game but did not play it through. I think that in either case the judging of an entire game is a little unfair. It is also unfair to judge Uru Live in the present situation.

I do not want to hang up on words like “evolved” but it has no higher plane connotation in it. Evolve means: work out, develop gradually, expand and I think this is what is happening here.

The Myst games evolved gradually form their beginning to culminate in Uru and Uru live and in the later we will be able if we want and if things work out as promised play together and open up new ages to explore. I am looking forward to that.

Quote:
I find this especially interesting, because when the original Myst first came out, a lot of people went out and bought a CD ROM drive just to play the game. In other words, the first Myst game also required an upgrade for a lot of people. I don't remember anger from the fans about that. But there now does seem to be anger that you can't play the game properly without a powerful video card.
We should keep in mind that this will be the case more and more. As games get more sophisticated they will demand better hardware.


"I am not young enough to know everything."

Oscar Wilde
Re: Is URU the Most Disappointing Game Ever? #118107
01/05/04 03:21 PM
01/05/04 03:21 PM
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Jenny100 Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by lasanidine:
[qb]
I do not want to hang up on words like “evolved” but it has no higher plane connotation in it. Evolve means: work out, develop gradually, expand and I think this is what is happening here.

[/qb]
If that is the case, I don't think it's the "evolving" into a 3D game that is putting people off. There are complaints about Uru that you never heard about RealMyst. No jumping to your doom and having to start the level over in RealMyst. You could save where you wanted and never fell in a hole.

I don't think omitting a save feature or the ability to have multiple saves in the standalone version is "evolution." Someone in Glitches just had their game crash and lost their only save, because Uru only keeps one save. Other online games manage to have saves in their offline versions.


[qb]
Quote:

The Myst games evolved gradually form their beginning to culminate in Uru and Uru live and in the later we will be able if we want and if things work out as promised play together and open up new ages to explore. I am looking forward to that.

[/qb]
I don't think Uru is a culmination of the Myst series. It's a completely different direction. A culmination of the Myst series would be more like RealMyst, with the ability to fully explore the gameworld and with weather effects and a "living, breathing" gameworld. But it wouldn't involve falling in holes and starting back in Relto.

Some people said that Exile was more like a distant cousin of the Myst series than a Myst game. I think this is even more true of Uru.

Re: Is URU the Most Disappointing Game Ever? #118108
01/05/04 03:51 PM
01/05/04 03:51 PM
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Salar of Myst Offline
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Shorah,

Am I disappointed with Uru? yes & no.

So far, I agree with all the reviewers who gave Uru a big BIG thumbs up for the graphics, amazingly cool environments, and lovely music/sound effects and then dropped the grade a whole letter because of the gameplay.

I definitely think Uru is worth most people's money, as long as you can handle the movement. If you are still in the deciding phase, PLEASE try the demo? If you can manage that, you are fine.

Gameplay: I am currently fighting with those same lava pits and thus not as happy as I was the last time Uru came up in discussion. I have linked to Relto involuntarily dozens of times and am still trying to work out if I am not positioning my character properly at the last location or if I should be looking for a different solution. Its hard to make yourself try alternate ideas when the buildup to each effort is so long and frustrating

{thus far I am resisting the urge to use a walkthrough.}

This lava Age looks *very* cool. (So far they all look fantastic!) That fact & the thought at getting to the other side and what looks like a decent puzzler over there a la Exile keeps me trying. [Hope thats true & that I get there soon!]

Uru's controls are very good for regular moving but not as precise as what I am used to in action adventures/platfomers in the more demanding areas. The camera swings to inconvenient places on critical ledges & jumps (even switching between views). Sometimes you bounce off the small platform you were aiming for, sometimes you can't walk up an incline thats right in front of your feet. Sometimes it looks like you should be able to climb but you can't. Your character can't pull him or herself up even the smallest ledges and won't jump at them. You can't push past the smallest of pine saplings even with a path between & behind them. Makes me want to carry a camping ax with me happydance </i>

But ..*sigh*.... I wish these improvements were real too ~ that something like them existed in Uru. Utterly lacking are such kindnesses as extendable ladders, ropes, bridges, hidden elevators etc to make the second to twenty-fifth time through an action sequence easier. For example: there's no ladder by an Uru/journey/hand cloth you jump to in the lava world. The only way out is a tricky jump, adding to the frustration & the links home.

Now Cyan themselves put a drop ladder in Riven to let you bypass a series of movements to get to the top area of the lagoon. A manhole, an extendable bridge, a lever finishing a walkway..all these and more served the same purpose. Once you had mastered something, you werent asked to annoy yourself by doing it every time (though you could if you wanted). This approach is standard even in many platformers. You get to a certain point and you can open a shortcut back to earlier locations. Maybe they thought the hand/journey save points would do this for you (Click anyone to make sure you link to that location). It helps in some places but...no.

So far it means I go back to where I'm stuck...exclusively.

& I would like to be able to wander about these beautiful worlds more easily as I conquer new challenges (as I did in Myst & Riven) but this is, in fact, highly variable. It'd be nice if you could choose the main location OR any of journey/hands you have touched...but no.

Uru simply doesnt have the feel of generosity that Riven & Myst enjoy.

It has great graphics. It has interesting, gorgous environments. I have liked the puzzles I've encountered so far [when the physical component didnt get in the way]. It lacks generosity in another way too.

Information: Would somebody kindly tell me where the names of these Ages are posted in Prime? I have hardly seen a journal. There's a short book of riddles that could teach you numbers if you didnt know them but otherwise dont seem to relate to what I am doing. I also found a discussion of how a KI works (which doesnt seem to relate to Prime beyond one automatic function but maybe I am missing something?). I wouldn't know Relto *is* Relto if I had not heard the name from other players, seen screenshots etc. To whatever extent I shielded myself from spoilers, to that extent I lack even basic knowledge about each place. Why no journal entries describing & naming each place as in Myst? Why no written clues?

Saying you can get help in UruLive doesnt fix the fact of the initial problem, nor does it help those in Prime without broadband. Live assistance makes some puzzles much easier yes, but others could still use a drop ladder or a extendable bridge IMHO.

Consider what Kateva said a bit ago. She went to show someone how to make a tricky jump and fell down herself but happily her friend made the jump. Thing is..after making that particular jump, she couldnt negate the need for it in exploring that area. Not for herself or anyone else.

Why make a puzzle/exploration game dependent on physically difficult challenges? I dont mind a physical action component as long as my reflexes arent the deciding factor on whether I can finish the game. Actually extra puzzles for those who would like an alternate non-jumpy route would make Uru even more wonderful. (Especially for me, I'd get more puzzles that way. I'd try them all duh

My mother couldnt stand all my ooooOOooo's and AAAhhhhhss and has started. She says she absolutely loves the first stage, which is the desert (its in the demo). She is having a bit of trouble with the bridges/ledges though and is no hurry to move on.

I definitely recommend Uru as a purchase for those who have: quick fingers &/or a helpful teenager handy, broadband, and hardware that exceeds the minimum by a comfortable margin.

It may be "E" rated, but unlike Myst, Uru doesnt seem to have been made for "everybody" to play.

At least not yet. IMHO It could be made that way with just a few, comparatively minor changes ** The fact that Uru is a work in progress gives me hope for the future.

**If they made extra pages to find for ladders & ropes and such, maybe added on a non-physical setting or let these be won by puzzling?

After all, I can upgrade my machine as resources allow. I can't upgrade my reflexes. All I can do is keep trying. Hopefully Cyan will have pity on me, my mom, my young son (his platformer skills are increasing but has trouble keeping up with what he has to punch on the keyboard), and others like us soon.

I have hesitated to say anything about Uru. Those who are already a part of the magical experience of UruLive in particular feel understandably protective about the basis of their new world but I hope they will also respect that 1) I *AM* a major Myst fan 2) Even Atrus would expect me to be honest. 3) I am pointing out the lovely roses as well as the beetle bugs


Susan <img border="0" alt="woozy" title="" src="graemlins/woozy.gif" />

Re: Is URU the Most Disappointing Game Ever? #118109
01/05/04 03:55 PM
01/05/04 03:55 PM
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Jenny100 Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Becky:
when the original Myst first came out, a lot of people went out and bought a CD ROM drive just to play the game. In other words, the first Myst game also required an upgrade for a lot of people.
There's quite a difference between buying a new computer - especially a new gaming computer - and buying a new CD drive.

Quote:

But there now does seem to be anger that you can't play the game properly without a powerful video card.
And a new processor, which requires a new motherboard...
It's often not just a simple upgrade of one part of the system. It's unlikely that a computer that is 2 years old or older will be fast enough to play the game with enough "extras" to "wow" the player. Even if you only want to add a new video card, that may mean you need another fan in the case and a more powerful power supply. Most people aren't able to put these things in themselves. Even people with brand new computers won't be able to play it if they bought a system with an onboard video card and no AGP slot.

It was never as difficult to install a new CD drive. Even computers without an IDE slot that could support a CD drive could be made to use a CD drive by adding a controller card. No need for extra fans. No worry about whether your motherboard could support the added load of a demanding new video card. No worry about whether your motherboard had the correct slot. Controller cards were made for both ISA and PCI slots. And CD drives could be used for other non-gaming applications as well, which helped justify spending money on them.

Quote:


Will Uru (and the other 3D games that have just come out -- particularly Broken Sword Sleeping Dragon and Mysterious Journey 2) cause a revolution in hardware buying and upgrading among adventure gamers and casual gamers? Will we accept the inevitable and finally close the hardware gap with other gamers who've been playing 3D games with um, more "evolved" computers for years? Or are the brand new 3D adventure games going to sit around for a year or two waiting for the hardware-buying habits of adventure gamers to finally catch up?
Are casual gamers prepared to drop around $1000 on a new gaming computer in these economic times? For something that is little more than an occasional hobby? I doubt it. We here at Gameboomers may consider it because we're gamers, albeit adventure gamers.

Quote:

As for the jumping and pushing challenges in the game -- they weren't my favorite part of Uru
I don't think anyone likes them. The game controls don't seem to have been made with jumping puzzles in mind. IMO the best interface for jumping puzzles is follow-cam, where you're behind the character and can line up jumps, but can see your feet. And most games with jumping puzzles have a save feature. Even a temporary "quicksave" would have been an improvement in Uru. I'm still hoping they'll come up with a patch, but right now I'm sure they're overwhelmed with getting the online version working.

Speaking of which, if someone hasn't bought the game and is mainly interested in exploring D'Ni online, why buy it now? I don't see any reason not to wait until they get the online version working properly.

Re: Is URU the Most Disappointing Game Ever? #118110
01/05/04 03:59 PM
01/05/04 03:59 PM
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Jenny100 Offline
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Nice post, Salar. thumbsup

Glad you decided to share your thoughts.

Re: Is URU the Most Disappointing Game Ever? #118111
01/05/04 04:45 PM
01/05/04 04:45 PM
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3d graphics, complete movement, physical puzzles, online gaming with a community, believe me the Myst series has evolved within itself. Not that everyone likes it but it has evolved. Also, a workable motherboard is about $65 and a Ti4200 vid card is about $69. An AMD 2500 is about $90 so the upgrades arn't really that steep. I put my whole system together for less than $500 and that includes everything.


What do you see Crispeto? I see URU Live!
Re: Is URU the Most Disappointing Game Ever? #118112
01/05/04 04:50 PM
01/05/04 04:50 PM
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lasanidine Offline
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Quote:
I don't think omitting a save feature or the ability to have multiple saves in the standalone version is "evolution." Someone in Glitches just had their game crash and lost their only save, because Uru only keeps one save. Other online games manage to have saves in their offline versions.
I think the automatic save feature and popping beck to Relto were designed with Uru Live in mind. They could have made a separate disk for the Uru live controls but than you would not have been able to import your own game into the Live Part.

When I used the word evolve I meant that the first person point a click evolved into a phase where games could actually meet in each others games and play together.


"I am not young enough to know everything."

Oscar Wilde
Re: Is URU the Most Disappointing Game Ever? #118113
01/05/04 05:25 PM
01/05/04 05:25 PM
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virginia
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KateVa Offline
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Salar-sorry you think I was talking about a tricky jump. It was actually a fairly basic one-I laughed when I fell back to Relto. I was so busy talking that I missed it. However, since there is a Journey Cloth by the more difficult spots (including the one I flubbed and the dreaded Lava Jump) you don't have to replay much to return.
That said, I think more of a saving ability would be a great plus for us all.
Anytime you want me to throw myself off a cliff in your age, just contact me in Live. lol
Kate
++++++
Katva in Atrus #02576201

Re: Is URU the Most Disappointing Game Ever? #118114
01/05/04 05:37 PM
01/05/04 05:37 PM
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MrLipid Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by lasanidine:
When I used the word evolve I meant that the first person point a click evolved into a phase where games could actually meet in each others games and play together.
Since evolution is usually defined as the shaping of a species by changes in its environment, I have to wonder how the environment of adventure games (and gamers) changed to encourage the development of something like URU.

Were point and click adventurers really demanding an online experience? Really demanding the opportunity to meet in each other's game? Some have clearly embraced the experience while others, myself included, have said, "Umm, no thanks."

Re: Is URU the Most Disappointing Game Ever? #118115
01/05/04 06:20 PM
01/05/04 06:20 PM
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FatVladdie Offline OP
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Good Evening,

I certainly didn't mean to insult or question anyones opinion or enjoyment of URU in my original post! I was just stating my feelings toward the entire roll-out process.
It's become all to acceptable in PC gaming to prematurely release games, then start the patch nonsense. I'm sure our console brethren would not sit still for all the "update your drivers, download the patch, run in compatability mode" stuff that we seem to take for granted.
When I purchased the game, the on-line aspect was not available to me as stated. I was not charged "beta" dollars; they received my entire $50. URU is not the first game released like this, nor will it be the last, it's still however, not right.
Thanks All,
Rich

Re: Is URU the Most Disappointing Game Ever? #118116
01/05/04 06:28 PM
01/05/04 06:28 PM
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friedmonky Offline
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I'm still waiting to read some sort of justification of the $50.00 pricetag. After everything I have read about this game, I think I will be waiting a long time for that.
Rusty smile


Even monkeys fall from trees sometimes.
Re: Is URU the Most Disappointing Game Ever? #118117
01/05/04 07:09 PM
01/05/04 07:09 PM
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Stony Brook, New York, USA
Becky Offline
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Quote:
Anytime you want me to throw myself off a cliff in your age, just contact me in Live.
bravo thumbsup

Re: Is URU the Most Disappointing Game Ever? #118118
01/05/04 07:28 PM
01/05/04 07:28 PM
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virginia
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KateVa Offline
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PS: Sitting in GameBoomers Neighborhood right now if anyone wants to join the hood<g>
Kate

Re: Is URU the Most Disappointing Game Ever? #118119
01/05/04 08:42 PM
01/05/04 08:42 PM
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lasanidine Offline
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Quote:
Since evolution is usually defined as the shaping of a species by changes in its environment, I have to wonder how the environment of adventure games (and gamers) changed to encourage the development of something like URU.
I do not remember saying anything about evolution as such. I used the verb to evolve.

But if you want to introduce environmental influence, it is probable that the expectations of the gaming community exerts an influence on the game design as a whole but does not necessarily fulfill individual desires.

As for the price of the game, it is true that it is expensive but when I bought it I used the $10.00 off capon and with the game I go the Myst 10th Anniversary DVD Package. I think that was a very good buy.


"I am not young enough to know everything."

Oscar Wilde
Re: Is URU the Most Disappointing Game Ever? #118120
01/05/04 09:55 PM
01/05/04 09:55 PM
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MrLipid Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by lasanidine:
I do not remember saying anything about evolution as such. I used the verb to evolve.
Hmm, OK. Evolve is usually defined as a gradual change. The changes in URU seem a bit more than gradual. More like a sport. Whether particular mutation will thrive or become a cul-de-sac remains to be seen.

That is, will it be the next Sims or the next Sims Online?

Ladies and gentlemen, place your bets. wink

Re: Is URU the Most Disappointing Game Ever? #118121
01/05/04 09:56 PM
01/05/04 09:56 PM
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I did the same thing, lasanidine! Being as the Myst 10th anniv. DVD sells for $20 all on its own and the $10 discount.... that brings the price of URU down to $20! I paid more for the newer than that! ...including BS3!

I think that's quite a savings!

Yvonne

Re: Is URU the Most Disappointing Game Ever? #118122
01/05/04 09:58 PM
01/05/04 09:58 PM
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Salar of Myst Offline
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Yes, I got that deal too. 39.99 for Uru & Myst 10th Anniversary dvd trilogy. Made me happy! I didnt even mind getting it a bit late under those conditions.

lol KateVa! If I ever make it into UruLive I will remember to contact you cliffside.

Yes, I know that particular jump isnt that bad (at least by comparison. I only had to try it half a dozen times instead of ..say...nah I wont say how many times I've jumped that lava pit LOL).

My point is that like many demanding physical bits in Uru
1) you cant avoid it ~ even after you've done it the first time
2) You link back to whatever challenge is closest to the last journey cloth.

That particular location leaves you trying to jump forward or trying to jump back (I havent managed going backwards at that spot even yet)
& stuck trying it every time you link in until you succeed. eek

(Mind you the view at that spot is breath-taking so it takes awhile to care)

You will make me a very happy person tonight if you can tell me of a way to link to the other journey locations &/or the beginning spot at will. Then I could explore other bits of an Age when I'm stuck, instead of exploring the zen of stuckness lol

But if this isnt currently an option, I feel sure it could be done. Likewise multiple save slots, added ladders etc.

Uru has many great elements (& a lot more going for it in Live) but it could be even better. Since its a "living" organism it is open to ongoing change. I am rooting for it "evolving" in such directions.

Shorah B'shehmtee!

Susan wave

Re: Is URU the Most Disappointing Game Ever? #118123
01/05/04 10:19 PM
01/05/04 10:19 PM
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lasanidine Offline
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Quote:
Hmm, OK. Evolve is usually defined as a gradual change. The changes in URU seem a bit more than gradual. More like a sport. Whether particular mutation will thrive or become a cul-de-sac remains to be seen.
It is amazing to me that a gorup of people who call themselves Adventure Players are so resistant to changes and new adventures.

Believe me there are a lot of changes coming our way. My son is in this busyness and I can tell you for sure that Uru and Uru Live is not going to be a one shot in the dark thing.


"I am not young enough to know everything."

Oscar Wilde
Re: Is URU the Most Disappointing Game Ever? #118124
01/05/04 10:48 PM
01/05/04 10:48 PM
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MrLipid Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by lasanidine:
It is amazing to me that a gorup of people who call themselves Adventure Players are so resistant to changes and new adventures.

Believe me there are a lot of changes coming our way. My son is in this busyness and I can tell you for sure that Uru and Uru Live is not going to be a one shot in the dark thing.
Maybe some of us are just resistant to ill-considered design choices masquerading as something new and better.

As I said, Ladies and Gentlemen, place your bets. wink

Re: Is URU the Most Disappointing Game Ever? #118125
01/05/04 11:24 PM
01/05/04 11:24 PM
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Salar of Myst Offline
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Lasadine, I know console games moved to 3D years ago. I hear you. "Its about time" computer games caught up, yes? You may well be right that many future adventure games may insist on it. I just resist the notion that this "improvement" is inevitable or required.


The fact that its rare to see anything else now on a game box doesnt mean that 2d wasnt good fun. It doesnt even mean that you couldn't put out a great 2d game & do well. (Kudos to Nintendo for encouraging a number of discontinued 2D titles back into the light of day on the GBA.)

I listened to some young'uns on a forum recently. They were wow-ed by how much fun the "old" 2D games (GBA releases of Super Mario titles, Donkey Kong Country, Castlevania) turned out to be & how they needed a different reflex style etc.

The change from 2D to 3D was simply that... change. There are good points to each, even in platformers. 3D rules because its the new toy.

Companies are competing with each other to be cutting edge. Mags & techs (the resident experts in these fields) love to see the new stuff and often tell the developers (and us) thats what "we" want. Well, we do...when it works. What we want most is a fun game like unto yore (at least in said funness)... but different in some way (or else we'd be replaying the exact same thing).

IMHO the public would probably have preferred a perfected older style Donkey Kong 4 to the much clunkier DK64 they got... as long as the gaming media didnt slice and dice it for NOT using the then new 3D options available.(DK64 was a fun game mind you, but much harder to control, camera didnt always cooperate etc. Its an example from some years back, but valid). NOW they could do a wonderful job with that title, instead of a reasonably good one.

There has been pressure in the console market to put the newest bells and whistles out before they've got 'em tuned. So a few years later, your ears quit ringing, you get some great melodies, & everybody in the biz says wasnt it just wonderful that we made such advances...but by then the development groups are feeling the pressure to upgrade the belfry again

This has been happening in the PC biz too. Many pc bestsellers were surprises back in the day. Not all were the graphic goldmines of their time. But that hasnt kept reviewers from projecting console expectations on to pc titles generally & adventure games in particular (which most of them havent been playing & know little about). 3D is now the norm in fps, sports, sims, and strategy games. Adventure gaming seems like the natural next wave from where they sit. Can't blame some developers from thinking they need to catch it. I hope they don't all think so. Many puzzlers aren't big on surfing. <img border="0" alt="woozy" title="" src="graemlins/woozy.gif" />

I dont think adventure gaming actually requires this jump to improve. PC adventure gamers include many people who won't touch a console with ten foot flaming shishkabob. A bunch of jumping around isn't everyone's cup of tea. It might even kill this genre to force too many crossover gaming elements.

Mind you, if the "new" style of adventure is done more like realMyst, I can see many adjusting to the idea easily enough. But good 2D games could still turn up & do well if well done. I know I'd play 'em smile

Sometimes change really is progress. Sometimes not.

May adventure games survive whatever changes come!

Happy New Year to you too laugh

Re: Is URU the Most Disappointing Game Ever? #118126
01/05/04 11:41 PM
01/05/04 11:41 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,719
La Puente, CA, USA
ladyyve Offline
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ladyyve  Offline
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Susan,

If I understand you correctly, you can always link to the beginning by clicking on the 'picture' on the inside page......... not the journey cloth.

Yvonne

Re: Is URU the Most Disappointing Game Ever? #118127
01/05/04 11:58 PM
01/05/04 11:58 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,143
Virginia
Glynn Offline
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Glynn  Offline
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Virginia
[/QUOTE]It is amazing to me that a gorup of people who call themselves Adventure Players are so resistant to changes and new adventures.

I call myself an adventure gamer, and I am not "resistant to change" I say "To each his own" For the gamers who like "Uru"...great! For those who don't want to buy/play it because it sounds too "Glitchy" and obviously it's a pain to get into it on line...That should be great too! I am sure that when/if y'all get tired of "hanging" off that cliff...we [other adventure ~boomers] will be glad to toss you a rope! laugh {{{Hugs}}} Glynn

Re: Is URU the Most Disappointing Game Ever? #118128
01/06/04 12:05 AM
01/06/04 12:05 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 519
Portland
crispeto Offline
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crispeto  Offline
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Portland
Well I love URU and haven't had any real issues at all. I can't wait til they update live with a whole new age. Neverending Myst - Mmmmmmm mmm, I love it!


What do you see Crispeto? I see URU Live!
Re: Is URU the Most Disappointing Game Ever? #118129
01/06/04 12:05 AM
01/06/04 12:05 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 3,424
WA. USA
lasanidine Offline
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lasanidine  Offline
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WA. USA
Quote:
because it sounds too "Glitchy" and obviously it's a pain to get into it on line...
The game is not glitchy at all, I did not find any bugs. It is just most systems are not updated enough to play it. You need a good video card and updated drivers.

As for the on line game it is sitll in the Beta phase and they are not charging for it.


"I am not young enough to know everything."

Oscar Wilde
Re: Is URU the Most Disappointing Game Ever? #118130
01/06/04 12:06 AM
01/06/04 12:06 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,216
Virginia's wetland dimension
Salar of Myst Offline
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Salar of Myst  Offline
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Virginia's wetland dimension
I will look for that option, Ladyvve. Thanks laugh

All I noticed opening the book was the cloth square and empty space on the other side. Even if thats all I still see, I will try clicking where it was. smile

'Course this means its already holding two places as an option. Several more squares and you could go to any of the locations you've found. Now that would be *very* good.

Susan smile

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