First I need to state that in my opinion this is not an adventure game. Action/adventure maybe but definitely not adventure. I also need to make clear that my first love in gaming is action/adventure and First Person Shooters. And Friedmonky can verify this to be a fact. Ive played every FPS thats ever came out since 2000, and 60% of all the action/adventure games that come out. I never have a problem that I cant adjust to and make work. However in Dreamfall the problem is not all the fighting you encounter in this game, its the controls, they just dont work. You are killed in no time flat because the controls wont respond. I am enjoying the characters and the story, but I am getting so fed up with all the tedious battles that you can barely beat because of poor camera work (angles) and poor controls. Now if the controls would only respond the way they should, this would probably be one of the best games I have played this year next to TombRaider, Legends.
Please note: I am playing the pc version, not the xbox, which I understand has much better controls. Also Ive tried all combinations possible to do the battles and none of them work for me.

Yes, I can!

Rusty

JohnBoy

I'm glad I read your post.
I was going to go and buy a new video card.
Seems as if the game is not worth it.
Normally I don't care what reviews say - I should have cared this time.
Retired

Id still buy the new video card.

Well, I can't account for your ongoing troubles, JohnBoy, but I just didn't find it anywhere near as hard as you seem to be. On PC. I died a couple times early on, and then I don't think ever again.

The response times in fights are slow, yes, which is frustrating. But since the enemies largely just stand there doing nothing most of the time, waiting for you to hit them, that's hardly the disadvantage it would be in a true action/adventure.

Are we playing the same game? The enemy knocks me down 3 times to my knocking them down once, simply because the controls dont do what they are suppose to do.

HEY Now.............
Go buy that new Card.......Cause if you think Dreamfall is demanding.....Wait for these other new games to hit the shelves...........

It only GETS Better



Darleen

You guys have made my mind up ,,THANKS

/Rant on
Johnboy I haven't hit any fighting - other than with the lousy controls that is. I can manage to play about 10 minutes at a time and then I get so fed up I quit. About the only thing I've managed to do is run Zoe into walls and have that blasted camera whip around (yes I changed the view but it's still the pits). I really thought after playing RPGs with the keyboard for almost three years this game would be a piece of cake for me - it's a piece of something alright, but cake isn't it

Would have been nice if they hadn't have tried to "improve" this game so much they made it a pain to play - What happend to the simple put your finger on the W key and stear with the mouse RPGs have been using for years??????

/Rant Off

Oh and Retired - definitely buy a new video card and then get Oblivion

Thank you Syd. :kiss:

No problem JB

Now I'm going back to a game I can play and whack some baddies

Hi Syd
Rant off for you - rant on for me.
I can kind of play the game with my GeForce FX 5200 but like you say the controls are so !@#$%?&
bad.
80 Days had the WASD keys and it worked fine for me. So did other games - can't remember what they are (old age is setting in)
Improve - ya - indeed - if it ain't broken don't fix it.
Rant off/
I will definetly get a new video card when my computer store can have the time to install it when I bring in the computer - right then and there - while I go for a coffee - can you imagine not having my computer for 2 to 3 days - might as well cut off my right arm.
Oblivion is not my type of game at the moment - might convert to these games later on. I dnloaded
the demo for KingKong and found it very frustrating.

Funcom is now on my Blacklist XXXXXXXXXXX and more. $45.00 down the drain!!!
I can only wish that Funcom has access to Gameboomers to see how many people are frustrated.

Retired

P.S. - am going back to my Myst Exile - am almost finished - at least with these games you don't have to worry about bad controls

Hi Retired - actually I had an Nvidia 5200 for years - matter of fact I just replaced it and that was only because Oblivion wouldn't play on it. I loved that card even though a lot of people said it was junk.

Be without a computer????? Arrrrrgh - my worst nightmare

I suggest anyone having problems with the controls experiment with the mouse settings or a gamepad.

A gamepad's really the ideal controller for this game, but there are other options. Try setting mouse to "movement" instead of "camera," for example. With that setting, dragging the mouse in any direction causes your character to move that way. It's rather tiring, since you have to move the mouse a lot, but it makes directional control easier.

Or you can use the default controls, but modify the mouse sensitivity settings to slow down how fast the camera moves. And you can generally do pretty well by always pointing the camera in the direction you wish to move, if at all possible. Then you just have to press forward to move and move the mouse to change direction.

I find that the battles in this game are quite easy IF you restrict yourself to only necessary battles. If a battle is too hard to win with ease, you probably can avoid the battle altogether with careful planning and stealth.

There are controls for the mouse on both the Game and Mouse tabs of Dreamfall's options. The Game controls let you reverse horizontal or vertical axes. Retired, if you were OK with 80 Days, try reversing the horizontal axis on the Game tab.

It isn't the fighting that gets me so much as the sneaking and having to time enemy movements. Ugh!

Well I'm willing go back in and reverse stuff - again - to see if it improves anything.

Stealth and fighting - this thread might have to be moved to The Darkside Forum

Hey syd


Unfortunately Dreamfall is Like Tomb Raider Games..........If you ever played a Tomb Raider game....YOU will understand what I mean.

Funcon Really messed up this time..........WE wanted the old time longest journey games.......

What we got is a take off of Laura Croft............What a Bummer

Darleen
I am new to all this - but I'm glad to hear you say that Funcom really messed up this time.
The Longest Journey (except for the dialogue) was such a good game.
Shame on them -- and like I said before they are on my Blacklist
Retired

Its a real Shame..............We all were waiting for the same Longest Journey...That we were use to playing........RATS nothing like it............

I for one ........VERY disappointed..I waited a long time Like Most.......And ...OH well whats the USE...........

Darleen

I'm partway though chapter five, and I'm not having any problems with movement. I'm using "mouse look" and the "W" key, and the game is playing just like other games with that control system.

After coaching by a ten-year-old, I'm not having any problems with combat, even though I've never played a game with combat before. Well, one game with combat if you count Odyssey, where I got to slay the Gorgon by backing into her with my eyes closed.

Is this Beginner's Luck?

JohnBoy-
I bought a five button mouse and have no trouble with the game, I have not gotten far, but can fight and move with no problem at all. I did not want a gamepad, as I do not know really how they work or which is the best.

Good Luck

Maggie

I do have to agree with Darleen that Funcom has messed this game up, why don't they leave a good thing alone. Guess I will email them and maybe their next one they will do it right.

Maggie


Hi Darleen, hope you are fine!!!!

MAGGIE

I think your upset...LIKE most.


I agree Leave a good thing alone.


Darleen

Darleen-

Not really upset, just ticked off that the company did this. I paid for my game well over a year ago and it is like ordering a special dress and it came 2 sizes too small. But I will live with this one and can only hope they change it back next time. I think a lot of us Seniors prefer things as they are. Like an old cat (for me cat's) we are hard to change!!!!

I didn't have any trouble either. And this is the first time I've played a game
with this kind of controls.

Thats weird,
I never had any problem with the controls...
As for Funcom messing up the game, well its only half true.
The action and sneaking parts are kinda annoying but the story is just awesome.
It could be better if it was a point'n click game but its still fun .

Changing tack somewhat and not having any knowledge of this game, my suggestion to Retired (and any other bold adventure gamers) is to install your own new video card: it is usually a simple plug in job with easy instructions - as long as you can figure out how to get the cover off your processor!

Nothing like taking some of the mystery out of the monster...

Becky, I think it's a sign that you need to try Divine Divinity.

Sounds like maybe you aren't block and dodging enough? The fight controls are sluggish, but I never died because of them.

There are also only four obligatory fights in the game. The rest have alternative ways around them. In fact a couple of these are pretty much impossible to win, making avoidance the only real strategy.

I had no problems at all with movement. Those who are should take some time to customize the controls in the various options screens.

Last, in terms of your considering Dreamfall to not be an adventure... I feel quite the opposite.

(Not my quote)

If I sound like I'm going out of my way to support Dreamfall here and in other thread, well yeah I kinda am. Because I think it's the best story in a game in years (better than TLJ1. It's the best since GK2 imo!), and I really want to see a sequel!

(Which Ragnar talks about some on his blog: http://www.ragnartornquist.com/ )

Does anyone else see the similarity here between what happened with BS3 and Dreamfall. Both are follow ups to very successfully games that had a solid fan base. In both cases the developer wished to attract new gamers to the genre by altering a tried and true formula to make the game 'more exciting', 'introduce tension' and have it conform to console playing. I don't know how successful BS3 was in garnering a new market of Adventurers. I do know that many don't see it as an exceptional game, and quite a few refused to play it because of the controls (myself included).
I do believe that Dreamfall is an adventure, but I'm sad to say it's not the type of adventure that will attract gamers like me. I hope it does put Adventures on the map for mainstream gamers; maybe they will be hooked and want to play more.
I just think that changing an adventure to attract mainstream gamers alters it so much that what might be gained is offset by the loss of the existing market. Developers can either listen to us and give us more of what we love or try to add elements that they think mainstream gamers want. More of the same needn't be stagnant or rehashed. There are plenty of stories to be told, and oodles of ways to present challenging puzzles. You don't need more than 2 buttons to have great gameplay. You don't need state of the art graphics to stimulate the imagination.
Referring to the Charles Cecil interview at AG, I find it fitting that he is talking of good old point and click for BS 4.
Coming from him, this is heartening indeed.

Must...Resist...The Dark Side....

Snatcher -- the 10-year-old instructed me not to block, but just to dodge and move around, and that's working very well so far. I think I must have a particularly slow thumb.

Colpet -- interesting analysis! I agree that there will always be tension when you take a tried and true formula and then significantly innovate/change the formula.

I am playing The Longest Journey as I play Dreamfall and so far my own impression is that, overall, Dreamfall is the better game. Of course, in many ways it isn't "fair" to compare a brand new release with a game that is several years old!

I was one of the "traditional" gamers who struggled with movement in BS3. I never did adapt to the screen-relative view in BS3, and just barely made it through a couple of the game's action challenges by the skin of my teeth after repeated attempts. I'm finding movement in Dreamfall to be much easier because it gives you the option to use character-relative movement. I'm assuming that combat will become more difficult as I go through the game, but so far the combat hasn't been nearly as difficult as I expected.

Re: Colpet's post

One (and the game designer) can think of such things as "trying to attract a mainstream audience" and "breaking a tried and true formula", or as trying to innovate and do what's best for the game irregardless of rules and conventions. In Dreamfall's case I think there's a bit of both going on, and the game benefits and suffers likewise.

For what it's worth --

Some of my settings in the options menu:

Under Game settings:

Camera Behavior (Mouse) -- Normal
Camera Horizontal Axis -- Inverted
Camera Vertical Axis -- Inverted

Under Mouse settings:

Mouse Mode -- Camera
Mouse Overall Sensitivity -- set at just over one-third along the line/gauge
Character Movement Sensitivity -- about three-fourths
Camera Sensitivity -- about three-fourths


A Question -- I'm using EAX hardware for sound -- could using a setting with software sound emulation be causing some of the movement problems people are having?

IMO All games are an adventure. However when an adventure game, in true meaning of the genre, has action elements, to me it puts the game in the action/adventure category.
If you read my post, I agree with you on the story. I stated that if the controls did what they are suppose to do, this would be the best game I have played this year next to TR Legends.
I did go to the Dreamfall forums and read all the problems others are having with the controls. I set things up the way one person said to and it did make a lot of imrovement in the controls. And the game is more tollerable. But the controls are still IMHO far from what they should have been.
You also admitted that the controls are sluggish. IMO this is inexcusable. There is no excuse for releasing the game with controls that half the people playing the game cant use cause they dont do what they are suppose to do 70% of the time.
I wish I could cheer on about the game the way you do. TLJ is my favorite game of all time. I, more than anyone wanted this to be the best game ever.
However the annoyances with the camera and controls make that almost impossible.

Okay Becky I faithfully wrote down how your game is set up and will try it because however I set my controls last night caused Zoe to stand at the top of the stairs at the gym, look at me and say "and you except me to be able to move exactly how??????"

Syd, my settings, which is what I got from the Dreamfall forum are exactly like Beckys setup. And it does make quite a bit of difference. Now only if the camera did not have a mind of its own.

People I'm certainly not against innovation. I am against awkward control systems. There's no need to re-invent the wheel especially where controls are concerned. Why over complicate things? In this game to make Zoe walk you have to hold down the shift and W key at the same time. Try doing that for very long and your wrists cramp up - solution - Caps lock on for always run, Caps lock off to walk - no need to hold any keys down. For me to get Zoe to walk into walls instead of bashing into them at full speed my fingers have to be in an awkward position and it's not necessary. Also, let the gamer choose between first and third person point of view. I love this option - if you feel like third person makes a game less immersive you hit a key and viola there you are - just you and your environment. If you want to see yourself and your environment - hit a key and there you are in all your glory. You've got the best of both worlds. And for heavens sake - do away with the flipping camera thing - gad that's annoying.

There - I've solved the control problems for future adventure games - everyone can now relax

Thank God, I am so relieved!

You're welcome Johnboy - now I'm off to save the world - oh and can I buy Zoe a sword somewhere or better yet a nice fireball spell? She's the pits at this kicking thing

I am truly sorry to hear all these 'bad' things about this game. It is a shame that Funcom did it this way. I don't suppose they will be smart enough to rework the whole game and offer it in the 'old' way to us who might then consider paying their rediculous price for such a 'stinker'. If I wanted to play RPG and Action games I would buy and play them. I DO NOT! Life is too short to take one of my 'pleasures' and make me get so frustrated with it that I want to burn it and strangle the idiot who thought it was a good idea to change it (if it ain't broke, don't fix it, some gameplayers will NEVER come over to our side and play these wonderful adventure games!). I pass on this one and will never even give it a chance. Too much to do and more fun ahead of me. After all my 'wish list' has 54 titles on it now, that should keep me busy for a looooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng time!Thanks for all the discussion re this one, makes it easy for me to ignore the game entirely.
Love, Betty Lou

Hi Betty Lou - I honestly don't know if there's much action - haven't made it that far. I do know that I'm going to start over so I can get the gist of what's going on because I have no clue. I lost the story line somewhere in the beginning - actually I lost it at the beginning as soon as I tried to get someone to move

I've reset the controls to how everyone said - it is a little bit better but not much and I'm still going to get a headache with this camera flipping thing. My son (the console player) came in, listened to me complain and informed me that I'm just not used to camera views and he's right - I'm not. I will fully admit - in public - what my family will attest to - on a patience scale of 1-10 - I'm a -8

I said that the FIGHTING controls are sluggish, not the rest. And I also said that there are only four obligatory fights in the game, all of which I beat on the first try and took no more than a few min each. They make up about 10 minutes of a (for me) 20 hour game. That makes them about 0.85% of the total game. IMO that's just too miniscule to 1) get really worked up about and 2) call this anything other than an adventure. (Yes, there are also the stealth sequences which took up a good bit more time - but I enjoyed those and found most of em to be more like puzzles in their own right anyway, since it's always a matter of figuring out what to do, and not testing your dexterity in doing it.)

I hated the camera flipping in BS3. But I'm not sure what you mean about camera flipping in Dreamfall - maybe because I'm always adjusting the camera to be behind my character.

Syd -- you haven't met the guy in the game yet who tells Zoe that she kicks like a mule!

Thanks for giving the game another try. It's worth it, IMHO. (BTW, as I play The Longest Journey, it seems as though April is moving sooooo slooooowly. I have to double click constantly to make her run.)

I like what you said about switching between third person and first person perspective. I don't know how often the DarkSide games let you do this, but Uru did and I loved it.

The only fighting control that is sluggish for me is the right mouse button -- and I understand that it's supposed to be slower because the more powerful moves are supposed to take longer than the lighter, quicker moves (left mouse button). They also do significantly more damage than the lighter moves.

I'll agree with you that Dreamfall is an adventure game. It has nowhere near enough action in it to qualify as action/adventure. You can't even make your character jump over a teeny little pebble (and having to walk around a little pebble instead of hopping over it is just silly).

But you have to understand that what took you 10 minutes may take some people here a good deal longer - and a few may have to get a saved game from somewhere to get past them. And you should probably combine fighting time with stealth time in most cases - at least when the stealth involves timing enemy movements and moving fast when you have to.

That guy was a real pain. It took me several tries to beat him.

Yes, he's tough, although there's a pattern you can use to beat him.

But again, it's not necessary to attack him--if you're careful, you can just sneak past him.

Jenny by the camera flipping around I meant that when I move the mouse the camera zooms in and out and if I move it too much I go from looking behind her (which is how I have the camera view) to looking at her from the front. Obviously I don't have something set up quite right.

Believe me Becky my character will never get told she kicks like a mule

Syd -- have faith! It's what the game is all about, after all.

Demosthenes -- you can sneak by him in the basement? (I didn't wait long enough for the....maybe shouldn't post a spoiler, but even if I did wait long enough, I couldn't see how to get by him unless he was going to stick his head in the sink for a couple of minutes!)

I guess I'll add my rant and possibly reiterate some of the previous comments.

In my opinion TLJ was(is) one of the classic adventures right up there with Kings Quest and Broken Sword. Those in decision making positions decide to take a good thing and improve on it my adding other elements to the adventure, I guess hoping to attract a wider audience. As evidenced by Kings Quest 8, Broken Sword 3 and now Dreamfall. What they in fact do (again in my opinion) is turn off their present fans of the game and not do enough to attract the crowd they were catering to.

There was a saying in the military (of which I retired from). "If it ain't broke don't fix it".

Well TLJ wasn't broke.

(In The Longest Journey, I am currently trying to remember how to puncture the rubber ducky while dangling it over a dangerous hotpost -- I mean hostpot I mean hotspot.)

If it's broke, fix it with a rubber ducky.

Becky, I tried to avoid him also and I couldnt. I kept hitting the right mouse button and even the K key to perform the heavy attack, I also used the space bar to block the attack. It would take several trys before Zoe would decide to attack and block and by then he had already beaten me to death. This is where I really got frustrated. I was pressing the right keys etc but Zoe would just stand there and take the beatings.

Avoiding him involves a distraction, creeping through shadow, and continuing to creep for the rest of the area.

Later there's an action you must take which *may* attract his attention, but I think it's still possible to avoid him.

If you do get into a fight with him, you need to dodge his strong punches and counter with a strong attack of your own--preferably in an area with a lot of room to maneuver. It's not easy, but there's a simple pattern to his attacks, and once you've found it you can defeat him.

Hmmm. Gotta try that, Demosthenes.

I beat him by not blocking him at all, but by backing away from him whenever possible, then running in and kicking, then backing away from him again.

It drove him nuts. I think he keeled over in sheer frustration.

JB -- I've never had Zoe just stand there while I was pressing keys! Sometimes she takes a second to wind up and kick -- but other movement is instantaneous.

Wonder why the experience is so very different?

Well, since there's no actual "dodge" button, running back and forth was pretty much all I did--it sounds like we used pretty much the same method for beating him, except I tried dodging left and right whenever he swung.

There is a long lag time between attacks and block moves. You have to plan everythjing in advance: if you press weak attack, for example, Zo

Well I'll have you know April just kicked some serious booty - course she had to die once before she prevailed but she did Zoe definitely needs April's staff. I am not, however, looking forward to this guy you all are talking about - I can see many reloads in my future

I think I'll put a spoiler tag on this thread if no one minds -

Well now that Ive adjusted the controls I'm moving right along. Just started "Winter".

Thanks Syd for the spoiler warning! Nice to see April again, isn't it? In TLJ she moved like a dancer -- now she moves like a warrior.

Blocking still lets you take damage, just not as much, right? Since it slows down your ability to make other moves -- errr, why bother with it?

Blocking works well against weak attacks, but it's useless against strong attacks. So it's a good thing to use if you think the enemy is going to use a weak attack--otherwise it's best to attack (if there's an opening) or dodge. Blocking is especially useful in tight corners where you don't have room to maneuver out of harm's way.

The controls are too sensitive by default. If you're using the mouse you may be able to fix the problem by reducing the mouse sensitivity on the Mouse tab in the game options menu.

Re: the guy in the basement... yup, you can avoid that fight altogether. That's what I did. Of the 4 obligatory fights I mentioned, none of them are as Zoe (1 April, 3 Kian). Yes, some may need longer to beat the fight sequences, but given that Ragnar himself said that you play as Zoe for about 70% of the game, and that you NEVER have to fight as her... it's still a small percentage. I'm not an action gamer, so when I said that the fights were a very small part of the game for me, part of that included using avoidance wherever possible. Think of that as another type of "puzzle" in a way.

I'm very upset that they ruined (imo) TLJ's followup. I still haven't decided whether or not to buy it because of the action elements. I will probably wait until I can buy it cheaply since the only way I'll be able to play is with saves from other people. This game is probably the biggest disappointment in games that I will have for 2005-2006.

I agree with Oldman in that when they make changes to the format like they did to Dreamfall, it just makes loyal adventure fans angry and doesn't bring a big enough return from the combat gamers. My last big disappointment for the same reason was Broken Sword and now they're admitting that it was a mistake. I still have that game sitting on my shelf started but never to be finished.

I'm so glad this is such a good year for games in general and there are so many to choose from making this disappointment easier to swallow.

Melanie

Well I'm with the guy in the basement right now and if you guys were able to sneak past him you're better sneakers than I am. He has nailed me 8 times now (both sneaking and beating me because Zoe just stands there like a dope) and I'm pretty sick of it. I want to pick up the pizza and hurl it in his face - 2nd degree burns would slow him down (now I'm not sure but I didn't think adventure games were meant to cause people to have violent thoughts - FPS yes, adventure games, no)

Here's how I sneaked by him:

@
@
@
@
@
@
@
@
@
@

Activate the pizza thingy. Run over and stand flush against the left side of the doorway into the room with the guard. Wait for the pizza to ding and for him to walk over to it (don't move to soon). Then just sneak into the next room using the CTRL key. Head over to the stairs on the right. When about halfway there, you can switch to walking (SHIFT). Once you reach the stairs you can go back to running. The guard will come upstairs a little later to use the bathroom, so don't linger around too long.

@
@
@
@
@
@
@
@
@
@
@
@

Hi guys,

Please if you have any gameplay hints - please post it at Hints forum. It will help the other gamers there. This forum is for discussion only. Thanks.

Snatcher, I will copy your post to the Dreamfall thread at the Hints forum. Thanks.

I've stopped reading this thread carefully because of the spoilers (haven't played the game yet), but I do feel the need to respond to this:

Are the people griping about the differences between Dreamfall and TLJ even considering the fact that Ragnar Tornquist made the game he WANTED to make, in the way that he WANTED to make it? Do you really think that making a game that differed from the (brilliant, IMO) designer's vision would have made it a stronger game? I've been lucky enough to see Ragnar demo and talk about this game several times now, he strikes me as a really sensitive guy who cares deeply about the game he made, and about the audience he made it for. (Even if you've never met him, this comes across very strongly in his blog .) And he clearly cares very much how adventure gamers respond to his game, and tried really hard to make something that audience would enjoy. It's simply not true that Funcom has turned their backs on TLJ's core audience. In fact, I imagine Ragnar's lost a lot of sleep over this.

I see a lot of uninformed "they did this, they did that" comments being thrown around (not just here) from people who haven't even played the game and appear not to know that much about its development... which would be fine if these were just conversations over coffee in someone's living room. But word of mouth spreads like wildfire when it comes to a game's reputation -- ESPECIALLY an adventure game which has an uphill battle to begin with -- and this speculation about the "evils" of what the developers have done here could hurt the game. Badly.

I'm all for people expressing opinions based on what they themselves have experienced playing the game. It's the rampant speculation on the part of people who haven't played it that concerns me. Wouldn't it s**k if the game tanked under the weight of all this unfounded word-of-mouth criticism, and then you get around to playing it five years from now and find that you were wrong?

I completely support any designer making the game he or she really wants to make to fulfill his or her deepest creative impulse. However, IMHO no one is obligated to refrain from criticism because that's what a designer has done and no one is obligated to appreciate someone else's creative vision. I haven't myself seen "rampant speculation" from people who haven't played the game (not to say there isn't any, just that I haven't seen it.) What I've seen is a lot of people who are playing--or trying to play-- the game complaining about the controls, the combat, the sluggish response, etc. And the discussion of those elements is to the exclusion of anything else about the game. The most I've heard is, "oh yeah, the story's pretty good if you can deal with the rest."

The combat and stuff like that is supposed to be a relatively minor part of this game, but everything I've read gives me the impression that it totally eclipses anything else--that's what stands out in people's minds. That being the case, I'm positive that this is not a game I would enjoy, more's the pity.

'a course, I'd be happy to see a thread that said differently.

WW

Really? Did you read Adventure Gamers' review?

As I said, I don't mind if someone who's played it expresses an opinion on it. That's what forums are for! But I am seeing a lot of people complaining about the combat who haven't actually played the game. That's what bothers me.

I feel a need to put my thoughts here Fov! I appreciate what you are saying about the developer making the game that he wants to make -and I appreciate what you are saying about people that even haven't played the game complaining.

I am waiting for the game to arrive and I've read all the posts here - fore-armed is fore-warned! I would like to make up my own mind!

But it is clear that the game has disappointed a lot of people with the introduction of action elements etc! My personal feeling is that if the developer wanted to try a different approach he should have then gone ahead with a completely different game. I apologise for my cynicism! - but the developer is going to get a lot more sales of this game on the back of TLJ - than he otherwise may have got. I can't help feeling this is very unfair on people who bought the first game.

There are currently nine threads about Dreamfall in Glitches. These have been posted by people that are playing the game.

Rusty

I probably wouldn't have as much of a problem with the action sequences, if it weren't for the very bad control system. Its horrible. This game, I'll never recommend.

Hi fov,

WW, Chrissie, Oldman, Rusty and many others have said it better than I could & I totally agree with their replies.

Must make one more comment though. When I decide whether or not I would like a game enough to buy, I do not consider the opinion of AG's review (a player who also plays action games wo problems) with all due respect, as much as I do, those who like the same games as I do opinions. I don't have to spend the $40 to have an opinion as to whether or not it was a good idea to buy it. I can pre-judge based upon those comments by others and what I see in glitches and hints threads. If this hurts the designer or games sales, naturally, I am not happy because of the hurt, but am happy that it shows that this is not a popular design to continue.

He should have tried his vision on a new game and not disappointed fans who have been waiting years for the sequel only to find it is not the beloved game's sequel in gameplay and is unplayable for them.

Melanie

Hi Rusty! Fair comment! I haven't played the game yet. But I think the point I was trying to make is that if it hadn't been a sequel to a game that myself and many others loved - I would have thought twice about buying it based on the experiences of people who have played it. I, like most people, before buying a game - will usually go on a review/recommendation first - the opinions in the posts all contribute to this!

I'd like to stick my two cents in here. I do read the comments and reviews, especially this year. There are so many new games available, and I wasn't a fan of the original TLJ, that I can be rather careful about what I purchase. I don't know if I like Dreamfall, but I know I won't buy it.

Hi chrissie



You said it all...........Thats my views also.

Alot of us are stuck with a $40.00 game...Most can't play at ALL....And the ones that can are very Disappointed........


Darleen

Some fights are more difficult than others. The fights that you are required to participate in are always very easy. Those that are harder can usually be avoided. Always look for alternate ways to get around a situation. The game is very good at giving you more than one choice, whether it be distracting, sneaking by, trapping, talking your way out, or choking the person.

Not sure I follow. I've read through them and they seem to be primarily technical problems with video cards, etc., rather than people complaining about the combat or controls.

Anyway. I'm clearly not making any friends here so I'm not going to post about Dreamfall anymore. It all comes down to personal preference and people can buy or not buy a game for whatever reason they choose. I just hate to think some players are going to miss out on a great game due to information that might not be accurate.

Hi Legolas813


I agree..............AS I am playing Dreamfall.I Think its a Kool game Like Tomb Raider....I am use to this kind of game................My problem is I didn't expect this game to be like an Action type game...............I am a Point & Click person...........>With no Killing is just fine with me. BOOHOO the game is nothing like I thought.


Darleen

Happy Gaming

Darleen -- I'm a little confused -- are you saying that you're enjoying the game, but are disapointed because it isn't what you expected?

Emily while I appreciate your and Adventure Gamers close relationship with Funcom and Rangar I resent being told we're giving out inaccurate information. I'm playing the game right now - I've only been stopped twice in this game and it hasn't been due to the puzzles which are extremely simple to figure out - it's been by the lousy controls. Like it or not - the action sequences leave a great deal to be desired.

Absolutely not what I meant to imply, Syd. (And I'm only speaking for myself here -- not AG or Funcom or anybody else.)

What I'm trying to say is coming out all wrong, which is why I'm going to excuse myself from this conversation.

The Medieval Moderator
Member # 537

posted April 30, 2006 07:52 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Darleen -- I'm a little confused -- are you saying that you're enjoying the game, but are disapointed because it isn't what you expected?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YES that is what I'm saying..........I love point & click games ...........I thought this one was that kind of game.BUT I can still play a game Like Tomb Raider.


My problem with this game is the Fact so many did not espect the interface to be what it is....................POINT MADE I will not reply anymore about this game.

Quote by Fov

"As I said, I don't mind if someone who's played it expresses an opinion on it. That's what forums are for! But I am seeing a lot of people complaining about the combat who haven't actually played the game. That's what bothers me."

Fov, How can you defend the game when you yourself havent played it?

I am using these settings and also found that lowering the Graphics Quality and Effects Quality (under Video) to Normal helped tremendously. Set to High, Zoe is floaty and harder to control. But set to Normal, I can move her around just fine and am getting into the game and enjoying it:))

Really? Did you read Adventure Gamers' review?

Yeah, I did. Actually I've read several reviews that said the action sequences were minor and very easy. However, several of those also were of the opinion that the addition of action elements to the TLJ game-verse was a mistake. And once I started seeing peer comment--as opposed to comments from people involved in gaming on a professional or semi-professional basis--what I saw was that people who share some of the same, uh, desires in games as I do are frustrated and unhappy for a variety of reasons.

I do agree with your frustration about people dissing the game on the basis of a rumour, w/out having played it. I don't think making a decision not to play it, or not to play it right now, because of the experiences of people who HAVE played it is the same thing. When I see something like, "I died 90 times before I could get out of the basement (alley, whatever)," I think this is not a game I would enjoy. Dying repeatedly doesn't entertain me.

Mostly what I've seen to date is that this game isn't really satisfying anyone, or is satisfying only a few. People who like action/adventure don't like it because of the controls, or because the action is too easy for them or seems misplaced. People who prefer point and click don't like it because it isn't.

Pretty much I agree with Melanie and a few others: I think it was a mistake for Ragnar to apply his innovations to the sequel of a game as well known and as much loved as TLJ. I think it would have been a better choice if, for example, instead of adding action elements, he did something like make the conversations more concise (which I don't gather he did). 'Cause that's a criticism of the first game he could have responded to to improve the sequel.

Anyway. It may be--it's probable--that I'll pick up this game in a year or so when the price comes down and I've adjusted to the idea of the differences, and like it. That's what I did with Uru. But even the idea that I may enjoy the game at some future date doesn't make me want to spend a big wad of bills on it now!

WW

There seems to be a belief that Emily was trying to tell people what to think or feel. There's a difference between being personally disappointed or making a decision for oneself and repeating what may or may not be entirely accurate (or complete) information without having played it. It was only the latter that Emily was trying to address (and she specifically stated her observations were not limited to GB).

But let's take this thread. If someone reads only page one of this thread, they may feel suitably informed to pass along how terrible the game's controls are elsewhere. If they completely miss subsequent posts about how re-configuring the setup makes it quite a bit better for most people, then the wrong message has been conveyed. Even if they do see it, the damage may still already have been done. For the many to whom direct control is already a concern, that's a potentially disastrous misunderstanding.

The discussion about the combat sequences could easily lead one to believe that they are a much more significant part of the game than reviews let on. For one's own purchase decision, that's a valid criterion and of course should be taken seriously. But hopefully people who haven't played it themselves will exercise more caution than to pronounce the game a failure because of them. Why? Because information like all but 3 or 4 of the fights being optional often seems to get left out of such statements. That's a fact that may actually MATTER to people who are on the fence about the game. So passing along only part of the story then fosters more misconception that eventually seems to be accepted as truth.

So, yeah. Though I'm not speaking for Emily, it sounded to me like a simple caution for those who haven't played it to be sure they have the full picture before spreading word of its many alleged failings. This is true of any game, of course, not just Dreamfall.

(And just for the record, though I obviously work for Adventure Gamers, I don't know Ragnar Tornquist from Adam, and my only concern here is that people don't jump to quick conclusions that may prevent them from considering a game they might enjoy.)

Let me start by stating that each and every gamer, member is entitled to express a point of view in an acceptable manner. Once it is stated, the readers are entitled to either accept it as such or form their own opinion. There is no need to further heavily impress that opinion anymore than necessary.

What is accurate for one may not be accurate for another. It is a personal opinion. It is not misinformation. Nor does this forum consciously give misinformation.

To get a full picture, opinions have to stated and analysed. There are several postings in this forum of various opinions of parts of the game, some good, some bad. It is then open to be accepted or not - that includes Emily's post.

The gist of the heated discussion is based on a statement - 'information that might not be accurate' by members that have not played the game and that includes Emily herself.

Let us let it stand. Let the readers take the comments as is and make up their own mind.

Thank you all.

First of all, I think this game is worthy. Beautiful environment to live in.
For me, default controls were something I got familiar with after a while. Combat sequences, likewise (my sneaking was very bad, I was caught almost everytime), after few deaths... I just used strong attacks and blocking, not dodging at all.
My dissapointment is in dialogues, there is no much options, not like in TLJ, and different choices doesn't seem to matter. Overall, I don't feel I interacted much during the game, except walking from point to point - and also too many movies, IMO many of this movies could be made like classic dialogues.
The end of game is special story, many people arguing about it, for me it was somehow unsatisfying, left me hanging. But then, it certainly raises emotions.

Let me begin by saying I have played the game. The graphics are stunning and the story interesting with an exception to the ending. The end of the game was huge disappointment for me. The idea of playing as different charcters kept things interesting. The controls are "picky", but using the combination of keyboard and track ball that I used in Uru,it was easy to navigate. Personally, I didn't care for the action sequences,but with most(not all) of the action sequences there is an alternative and the action areas to which there are no alternatives are easily done.
While I enjoyed playing the game, I wouldn't purchase other games with action sequences which give no alternatives but fighting.
Viz

Hi everyone. I'm curious about Dreamfall now that I've read so many threads about it. It sounds like it was supposed to be (or expected to be) a straight adventure game, and so I'm wondering now if The Longest Journey was a straight adventure as well? I haven't played that one so I'm not sure what to expect as far as Dreamfall, but after all the hub-bub, I'm really curious now...

I'm not normally an action game gal, but the screenshots of Dreamfall are so beautiful I'm not sure I can resist giving it a try.

Before I do, I'd love to hear if there are any good things about Dreamfall (aside from the pretty graphics), or has everyone pretty much had disappointing experiences with it?

Thanks so much,
Cat

Hi Cat, I am halfway through the game. Personally I am extremely disappointed in the game. IMHO it doent even come close to being the excellent game TLJ was. I cant wait to finish the game so that I can get back to other games I put aside. The only reason I am continuing the game is because I did pay $40 for it and I am curious about the controversial ending. Also the game appears short. I only have maybe 4 or 5 hours total in the game and I am a bit more than half way through. But many do seem to like the game so its best everyone play it and come to their own decision.

Hi all,

I'd just like to say I really appreciate this thread, despite a certain amount of, um, contentiousness--? or maybe I should say "vigorous debate." But I can tell from the discussion that Dreamfall is just not for me. I think it's great that Ragnar made the game HE wanted to make--that's exactly what he should do. But--like any number of games, movies, novels, etc. in the world--it can be excellent in its own right & just not be my thing. I gave up on BS3 about two-thirds of the way through, not because I couldn't do the action sequences, but because I wasn't having fun. I could see that it was really well done; but it wasn't my thing.

Anyway I'm happy to have saved the $40--which I can now spend on Scratches, or Keepsake, or (more probably!) both. So thanks to all.

Jane

If you can do the action sequences, the story and graphics make the game worth playing. Of course if you play games for the puzzles you aren't going to find many. TLJ had better puzzles - and I don't just mean harder puzzles.

I will say this about Dreamfall's story - it really is more "mature" than the one in TLJ. Except for the swearing, TLJ could be played and enjoyed by pretty much any age group. It had a good story, but not all that complex. Dreamfall is more complex and I think most kids would have trouble understanding what was going on and what it meant. To avoid spoiling anything, I'll be vague and say when certain events happen in Dreamfall they're a lot more shocking than similar events in TLJ. But that isn't the only thing that makes the storyline more "grownup."

I appreciated the added depth of Dreamfall's story. Is it a better game than TLJ? I guess that depends on what you want out of a game.

Not a rant - had one earlier! I think this thread has got such a positive aspect in that there are so many varying views - it is the most info I have ever got about a game before playing it! Also as much as I was initially disappointed that the game was going to include some action and a lot of people had problems with the control system - it was reassuring that some people seemed to have no problems at all!
My game has arrived - the screenshots look beautiful - I've armed myself with a gamepad! and looking forward to playing!

Well, I must say it's good to see more information about other aspects of the game. I've gone back and forth about this one more than I have about any other game, I think. I so want to know what happens next in the story, and when I looked at the preview screenshots I couldn't stop drooling... but I really, really don't like action, fighting, etc. Even a couple sequences like that can cut my enjoyment of the game in half or more. So I guess I'm still in a place of thinking I'll wait...

WW