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For those who have played Sentinel #120824
02/19/05 05:50 PM
02/19/05 05:50 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 264
Jenna Offline OP
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Jenna  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 264
How do you approach Myst type games like this? I enjoy these games but always end up relying heavily on walkthroughs which takes the fun out of it. For instance in Sentinel, I am just getting started and have to solve a puzzle with lights on a ramp and have absolutely no clue as to what to do. I'm not asking for a hint here or anything like that but do I just not see the clues for solving puzzles like this or is it more trial and error? I'm trying to figure out how to get more enjoyment out of my games and stop consulting the walkthroughs so often.

Re: For those who have played Sentinel #120825
02/19/05 06:10 PM
02/19/05 06:10 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 71
USA
B
beanbag Offline
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beanbag  Offline
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B

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 71
USA
That's one of the hardest puzzles in the game. Don't judge the whole game by it. Andrew Plotkin actually wrote a computer program to save himself some time. Don't believe me? Check here
http://www.eblong.com/zarf/gamerev/sentinel.html

Quote:

(The worst puzzle in Sentinel is a blinky-lights affair in which thirty-two switches control twenty lights. You have to pick the four correct switches. As far as I can tell, there's no way to solve this except to write down all 32 switch patterns, and then start combining them by brute force. I wound up writing a program to solve it for me, which at least saved the brute-force step.)
***Here\'s*** another solution.

Re: For those who have played Sentinel #120826
02/19/05 07:25 PM
02/19/05 07:25 PM
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 26,917
Stony Brook, New York, USA
Becky Offline
The Medieval Lady
Becky  Offline
The Medieval Lady
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Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 26,917
Stony Brook, New York, USA
I did it by the "brute force" method and it really wasn't that bad. Writing everything down and then testing them took maybe an hour.

Re: For those who have played Sentinel #120827
02/19/05 08:01 PM
02/19/05 08:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 41
Pittsburgh PA
K
KissKiss Offline
Shy Boomer
KissKiss  Offline
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K

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 41
Pittsburgh PA
O.K., so please give the answer to that blinky-lights puzzel so we don't have to use the ole brute force.

Re: For those who have played Sentinel #120828
02/19/05 08:04 PM
02/19/05 08:04 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 40,020
southeast USA
Jenny100 Offline
GB Reviewer Glitches Moderator
Jenny100  Offline
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Sonic Boomer

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 40,020
southeast USA

Re: For those who have played Sentinel #120829
02/19/05 08:09 PM
02/19/05 08:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 41
Pittsburgh PA
K
KissKiss Offline
Shy Boomer
KissKiss  Offline
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K

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 41
Pittsburgh PA
Thank-You Jenny!

Re: For those who have played Sentinel #120830
02/20/05 08:27 AM
02/20/05 08:27 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 16
Los Angeles, CA
freeform Offline
Shy Boomer
freeform  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 16
Los Angeles, CA
Spoiler Warning
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I want to share my way of thinking for solving this puzzle. At first, since the lights are all off, we need to assume "something" will happen after all lights are on. Okay, then, I have noticed for each switch, 15 lights on. Then I record which lights "not" on for each switches on three stands. Then I try to match these dark patterns for three stands. Then I use trial and error to find out the switch on the fourth stand. I think I got lucky, it's not necessary work for that match but I'm just too lazy.

Anyway, I think the main problem of Myst type games are their puzzles are usually not related with the story. So it's difficult to guess what player should do from the story or dialogue. I always see these games as some collection of puzzles with some ambiguous objectives but still some of them are quite challenge and interesting.

PS: Sorry about the spoiler.

Re: For those who have played Sentinel #120831
02/20/05 05:40 PM
02/20/05 05:40 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 40,020
southeast USA
Jenny100 Offline
GB Reviewer Glitches Moderator
Jenny100  Offline
GB Reviewer Glitches Moderator
Sonic Boomer

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 40,020
southeast USA
Quote:
Originally posted by freeform:

Anyway, I think the main problem of Myst type games are their puzzles are usually not related with the story.
Sentinel has a virtual environment, without normal constraints. The Dormeuse is testing Beni, and the tests are the puzzles you have to solve to find your way through the gameworld. So how are the puzzles not related to the story?

Actually, I don't care if puzzles are related to the story or not, though it's best if they make sense within the context of the gameworld.

Re: For those who have played Sentinel #120832
02/20/05 07:42 PM
02/20/05 07:42 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 16
Los Angeles, CA
freeform Offline
Shy Boomer
freeform  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 16
Los Angeles, CA
Hi Jenny,

I'm not sure about the story. It doesn't make much sense to me. From the story, if we image Dormeuse is the programer who write several puzzles to entertain Beni, then it maybe made some sense. Otherwise, the puzzles themselve don't have any connections with Dormeuse's personality or her any experiences or even the dialogues between she and Beni as far as I can see. Or probably I just didn't get the story.

Re: For those who have played Sentinel #120833
02/21/05 01:01 AM
02/21/05 01:01 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,453
Texas
nickie Offline
Grand wizard of high mucky muck
nickie  Offline
Grand wizard of high mucky muck
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,453
Texas
What I didn't understand, isn't she supposed to be an Egyptian? Why was she dressed like a flapper? Did I miss something?


"How could drops of water know themselves to be a river? Yet the river flows on."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Re: For those who have played Sentinel #120834
02/21/05 03:05 AM
02/21/05 03:05 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 40,020
southeast USA
Jenny100 Offline
GB Reviewer Glitches Moderator
Jenny100  Offline
GB Reviewer Glitches Moderator
Sonic Boomer

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 40,020
southeast USA
The Dormeuse is Tastan, not Egyptian. I think dressing her as they did was just a design choice and not meant to relate to any particular moment in history. The game is supposed to take place 1900 years in the future.

Here's the game site
http://www.dormeuse.info/adventure.html

Here's Becky's interpretation of the game
Sentinel ending

Last edited by looney4labs; 06/19/07 09:50 AM. Reason: updated link
Re: For those who have played Sentinel #120835
02/21/05 09:15 AM
02/21/05 09:15 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,453
Texas
nickie Offline
Grand wizard of high mucky muck
nickie  Offline
Grand wizard of high mucky muck
Adept Boomer

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,453
Texas
Thanks Jenny100 ! For me, the story was difficult to follow and you could drive a truck through the holes in the plot. But it was pretty...


"How could drops of water know themselves to be a river? Yet the river flows on."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Re: For those who have played Sentinel #120836
02/21/05 03:40 PM
02/21/05 03:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 16
Los Angeles, CA
freeform Offline
Shy Boomer
freeform  Offline
Shy Boomer

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 16
Los Angeles, CA
Possible Spoiler about Story Warning
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At first, I must say I haven't read any fictions from Mr. Dowling. But, I read an interview with Sentinel's designer and it seems to me that they care much about the story. What really confuse me is that why they design the game in this way if they really care about the story. I means, for each world, there seems a lot of stories about Dormeuse's life in it. But in game, what we actually get are some puzzles and several very short dialogues. Why don't they put more documents and short movies to explain more about Dormuse's life? Or better, why not put Beni in the same footing to let him go through some difficult time that Dormuse has experienced and using these as some puzzles? At least, in this way, at the end of the games, we will understand better about Dormeuse and those 85 people.

Re: For those who have played Sentinel #120837
02/22/05 08:51 AM
02/22/05 08:51 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 115
Rzeszow, Poland
M
Maciek Offline
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Maciek  Offline
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M

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 115
Rzeszow, Poland
The answer is quite simple. Money. This game had a very small budget which didn't allow for more scenes, dialogues, characters, locations, diaries, books etc. Yes, we tried to add as much of those as possible, but there were limits of what we could do. We wish we could create more detailed game, with plenty of characters, a lot of dialogue etc. But adventure gaming is slowly dying in it's original form - at least if the money is considered. Publishers are very reluctant to invest any serious money in the adventures because they don't sell that well.


Maciej Miasik
www.detalion.com
Re: For those who have played Sentinel #120838
02/22/05 02:17 PM
02/22/05 02:17 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 40,020
southeast USA
Jenny100 Offline
GB Reviewer Glitches Moderator
Jenny100  Offline
GB Reviewer Glitches Moderator
Sonic Boomer

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 40,020
southeast USA
Hi Maciek.

What will Detalion's next game be after Sentinel?

Re: For those who have played Sentinel #120839
02/22/05 03:31 PM
02/22/05 03:31 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 920
West Seattle, WA
ces Offline
Settled Boomer
ces  Offline
Settled Boomer

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 920
West Seattle, WA
Maciek, I LOVE Sentinel!

Keep making high quality games please!!!

And to repeat Jenny, what will your next game be? I, for one, can hardly wait!


Christine
Re: For those who have played Sentinel #120840
02/22/05 03:34 PM
02/22/05 03:34 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 115
Rzeszow, Poland
M
Maciek Offline
Settled Boomer
Maciek  Offline
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M

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 115
Rzeszow, Poland
It is very likely that Detalion will cease its operations as the game developer. Our future is very uncertain and we are not working on any games. cry


Maciej Miasik
www.detalion.com
Re: For those who have played Sentinel #120841
02/22/05 05:24 PM
02/22/05 05:24 PM
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 69,956
MaG Offline
Sonic Boomer
MaG  Offline
Sonic Boomer

Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 69,956
Sorry to hear that Maciek. I really am...

Re: For those who have played Sentinel #120842
02/22/05 05:41 PM
02/22/05 05:41 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 11,550
Québec
Chief Offline
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Chief  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 11,550
Québec
Maciek, this is a very, very sad new.

Sentinel is such a very good game. Sad.

Andr

Re: For those who have played Sentinel #120843
02/22/05 06:12 PM
02/22/05 06:12 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 264
Jenna Offline OP
Settled Boomer
Jenna  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 264
I am sorry to hear that too as I'm really enjoying this one.

Re: For those who have played Sentinel #120844
02/23/05 02:46 PM
02/23/05 02:46 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 40,020
southeast USA
Jenny100 Offline
GB Reviewer Glitches Moderator
Jenny100  Offline
GB Reviewer Glitches Moderator
Sonic Boomer

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 40,020
southeast USA
That's terrible news.

Re: For those who have played Sentinel #120845
02/24/05 01:52 AM
02/24/05 01:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 16
Los Angeles, CA
freeform Offline
Shy Boomer
freeform  Offline
Shy Boomer

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 16
Los Angeles, CA
Maciek, It's really a terrible news. I enjoy schizm, shizm 2 and sentinel, at least those puzzles in them. I like that kind of puzzle that at first it seems quite random, then after you carefully think about it and usually you can figure out a systematic approach to solve that puzzle. I really enjoy this system building process in schizm, schizm 2 and sentinel. It's pity that now many people like mindless wandering and shooting more than challenge puzzle solving. I hope you can make it eventually.

Re: For those who have played Sentinel #120846
02/24/05 02:11 AM
02/24/05 02:11 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 15,679
England
tigger Offline
Graduate Boomer
tigger  Offline
Graduate Boomer

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 15,679
England
That is sad news indeed Maciek, I hope something comes up to help you turn the corner.

Tig


A bounce a day keeps the doctor away!!
Playing Sims2, Sherlock, Phantom of Venice
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