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from game developers #482442
03/30/09 03:22 AM
03/30/09 03:22 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 14
russia
onezhelsky Offline OP
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hello.

my name is oskar. and i work in playrix ent - developer of fishdom, rise of atlantis, 4 elements and other good games. smile

english is not my primary language - so sorry for errors. smile

but - we want to make better games for you - can you help us?

what are most important for you in HOG games? what you look for?

good graphics? good intresting story? good fantazy world? or other else?


sr. producer and game designer
Playrix Ent. (http://www.playrix.com/)

(fishdom, 4 elements, rise of atlantis and much more)
Re: from game developers [Re: onezhelsky] #482447
03/30/09 03:42 AM
03/30/09 03:42 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 983
Sunny Devon, United Kingdom
Upsydaisy Offline
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I love the Ravenhurst games, lots going on, mini games and puzzles part of the story, great graphics, I could go on...also Sherlock Holmes-Persian Carpet, that was a great one. I think here these types of games are called IHOG ('I' is for interactive, I think.
Not that keen on HOG's that have scene after scene of just hunting objects gets really boring after a while. Golden Prague is one of these. Also one with lots of dialogue to read is a no-no. wave

Re: from game developers [Re: onezhelsky] #482448
03/30/09 03:44 AM
03/30/09 03:44 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 23,899
Marlborough USA
Kaki's Sister Offline
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welcomeGood Morning Oskar. Welcome to GameBoomers. I love good graphics and puzzles that are not to complicated or confusing to figure out what to do. wave


Gerry
Re: from game developers [Re: Kaki's Sister] #482451
03/30/09 03:55 AM
03/30/09 03:55 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 14
russia
onezhelsky Offline OP
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russia
Thanks, Kaki Sister and Upsydaisy. smile

what you play hog\ihog games for?

for move into new world? smile for live "other lifes" and be indiana jones? for pass time of your life? for recive good emotions from games?

what you play games for? what kind of experience you look in games?



sr. producer and game designer
Playrix Ent. (http://www.playrix.com/)

(fishdom, 4 elements, rise of atlantis and much more)
Re: from game developers [Re: onezhelsky] #482458
03/30/09 05:21 AM
03/30/09 05:21 AM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 165
East Suussex, UK
J
Johnnycowgirl Offline
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Hello Oskar and welcome
I love the Interactive Hogs too. To have to do some thing to bring the result, be part of the game in a way. A good storyline good mini games, not too hard to detract from the game. To relax but be involved, a good feeling when you have arrived, saved a life or whatever. Want the game to go on and on. So not too short. IHOGs are a little bit adventure game to me. The adventure games can be hard going or with some difficulty but an IHOG should be pleasure, relaxing but at the same time involved play.
I am a granny gamenut.

Yes, Oska we all need to escape at times. A break from real life. Heaven

Bella Rosa I love those games too. So many, can't write them all.


Inge
Ravenhearst 1 ++ Dracula: Path of the Dragon 1,2,3 + The Shadow of the Dragon 4 + Blood Legacy 5 partial until stuck in the fog
Re: from game developers [Re: Johnnycowgirl] #482463
03/30/09 05:49 AM
03/30/09 05:49 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 14
russia
onezhelsky Offline OP
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russia
Johnnycowgirl, big thanks!!! smile

you are great and your answer - are really helpful. smile

ie - as i understood - good hog game - like good film. smile about intrigue nice story, in new funny place. and good immersion and "wow - it's interested" mood... smile

i am right? smile


sr. producer and game designer
Playrix Ent. (http://www.playrix.com/)

(fishdom, 4 elements, rise of atlantis and much more)
Re: from game developers [Re: Johnnycowgirl] #482464
03/30/09 05:54 AM
03/30/09 05:54 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 545
B
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Hey Oskar

Thank you for taking the time to ask.

I love the interactive HOG's- Samantha Swift is one of my favs as are the Natalie Brooks and Mortmer Becketts, Tresures of Mystery Island types and also Crystal Portal/Tresaure Seeker types.

I love beautiful hand drawn graphics and puzzles you use your brain - I hate puzzles you have to fire your mouse or use hand co-ordination.

Most important I love a good story. If no story to follow the game loses my interest.

Oh and a game that I can play at least for 6- 8 hours.

If the game can also make my coffee a bonus but the above covers the main things I look for.

I really appreciate you asking smile


Re: from game developers [Re: BellaRosa] #482513
03/30/09 08:18 AM
03/30/09 08:18 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 206
Maryland
lilkim55 Offline
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Hi Oskar, I love Playrix games. I would like games with a choice of no timer or at lest relaxed time. Fishdome was great as the timing was not to tight. Thanks for asking you make great games
Lillian

Re: from game developers [Re: lilkim55] #482517
03/30/09 08:29 AM
03/30/09 08:29 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 18,262
Massachusetts
GBC Offline
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welcome Oskar. I love interactive games with lots of puzzles and no timer. I like to enjoy the game without being rushed. I play mainly for enjoyment and to keep my brain busy. smile


Gail
Re: from game developers [Re: BellaRosa] #482523
03/30/09 09:08 AM
03/30/09 09:08 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 14
russia
onezhelsky Offline OP
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onezhelsky  Offline OP
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russia
Originally Posted By: lilkim55
Hi Oskar, I love Playrix games. I would like games with a choice of no timer or at lest relaxed time. Fishdome was great as the timing was not to tight. Thanks for asking you make great games
Lillian


lilkim55 - thanks for your words. smile what you want to have in fishdom 2? smile

Originally Posted By: BellaRosa

If the game can also make my coffee a bonus but the above covers the main things I look for.

I really appreciate you asking smile



i am not sure about "coffee packed games". smile but - i hope - playrix will provide "fun packed games" - instead. smile

thanks for your answer and your time.


sr. producer and game designer
Playrix Ent. (http://www.playrix.com/)

(fishdom, 4 elements, rise of atlantis and much more)
Re: from game developers [Re: BellaRosa] #482540
03/30/09 09:49 AM
03/30/09 09:49 AM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 146
G
GPM Offline
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Hi, Oskar! I've played and enjoyed some of your games, and I wanted to take the time to respond thoughtfully because I truly admire and appreciate people who think carefully about what they're undertaking with an eye toward succeeding at it at the highest level possible.

I think when you say a good HOG game is like a good film or a good book, you are exactly correct. And just like a good film, a great HOG game is actually an entire experience for the player.

GRAPHICS. Obviously, a great HOG is going to have wonderful and wonderfully immersive graphics.

One of the most persuasive scenes I've seen recently is in the Serpent of Isis. Every single time I "go into" the casino guy's train compartment, I absolutely feel like I'm in a smoky room!

MUSIC. As in a film, I think the really great HOG games also have good music in addition to great graphics. The music contributes to the player's overall experience and helps control their mood and keep them interested and engaged.

STORY. While the storylines themselves vary dramatically, if you want to make a great HOG the story needs to be a solid foundation for the magnificent graphics. The story will keep the player interested in continuing to move through the game.

When I played the James Patterson games, for example, I found them to be very much like books, where I played in part just to find out what happens next! And in thinking about it, I think all the great HOGs (Hidden Expedition: Amazon, Return to Ravenhearst, the Serpent of Isis, Agatha Christie, etc.) have the element of anticipation in their storylines.

MINI-GAMES. I think mini-games serve several functions in HOGs. In addition to helping to move the storyline along, they offer convenient and logical breaking points for people who either can't or don't want to spend many hours playing a game at a single sitting. And because the HOG element itself primarily requires one skill (observation), mini-games allow the player to use their brains in other ways (analytical, for example), which makes the game more enjoyable.

Great HOGs seem to have mini-games that are mentally intriguing, appropriate to the storyline, and visually attractive and engaging.

Now for the really important stuff - what distracts from the player's experience and keeps a good game from being great?

LENGTH. When you think about the length of the game, you might also think about it in terms of the length of a book or film. The game should be appropriate to the length of the story being told which, I suppose, should probably approximate an average-length novel.

Not every book is or should be as long as the legendary War and Peace (or this post!) and there are some films that are less successful than they might otherwise be because they're too long. I admit that I've played HOGs that actually fatigued me to the point where it almost felt like drudgery.

I think developers much more frequently get in trouble, however, when they make the substantial investment in making a fine product but, presumably for monetary reasons, have to stop with one that's too short. If the game is too short, word gets out quickly and, if players feel they are not getting adequate value for their money, the developer will lose sales.

Careful planning and budgeting with an eye toward marketing and sales may seem boring when compared to the obviously more fun and exciting artistic and creative elements but, as in great films, they're still really important! smile

(Another way to go with HOGs, incidentally, are games like the Hidden Object Show and Big City Adventure series, which do not offer much in the way of a story but offer an extremely long playing experience that is economically possible to develop by being repetitive. Others can probably speak to this better, but it's my sense that this type of HOG game has fallen out of favor lately.)

So, in summary, you want it to be long enough for people to feel they've gotten value for their money and that the story has been well told, but not so excessively long that it feels like drudgery to finish (which is rare).

TIMERS. If you've been reading this board it probably goes without saying that a great HOG either offers the player the option to play without a timer or will have no timer incorporated into it at all.

Many people simply will not buy an HOG that has a timer you can't opt out of so, no matter how good the game may be, you'll lose those sales.

SKIPPING MINI-GAMES. The great HOGs generally offer the player the option to skip each mini-game.

Players who are immersed in the game's story (as opposed to those who are playing the game for the challenge of it) may not want to have their experience broken up by having to keep looking things up in a walk-through, so giving the player the option of skipping a mini-game will serve both types of players and help ensure your game's success.

HINTS. Similarly, great HOGs generally have a hint system that's not overly punitive.

LANGUAGE. You mentioned that you are not a native English speaker. I can assure you, your English is FAR better than my Russian and I commend you for it!

Like movie subtitles, if you are going to create an HOG for an English-speaking audience, I would encourage you to utilize the services of a native English speaker or a top-notch translator. If the game uses words that are misspelled or words that are accurate but are not commonly used to describe the hidden object the player is looking for, players will notice it immediately. And just like any small thing can cause a person to make a poor first impression, this can make the game seem to be of lesser quality and/or leave players frustrated.

OPERATIONAL ACCURACY. A couple of operational things come to mind particularly with respect to HOGs.

Players generally do not like it if they have to click an object several times in order for the game to recognize their selection. A click anywhere on the hidden object should be recognized the first time.

Players generally do not like it if they are asked to find a certain item (a drinking glass, for example) and there are multiple drinking glasses in the scene, with only one of them being the correct selection.

Games frequently penalize players for multiple clicks on the "wrong" item and players are frustrated when they are penalized for clicking on items that, despite accurately satisfying the description, just don't happen to be the object the game is looking for.

Hints should be helpful in identifying the object. Occasionally the area highlighted is too broad to be helpful.

Dark scenes set the mood but, excluding the deliberate use of a game flashlight, the scene itself shouldn't be so dark that the player can't find the objects (or at least the objects shouldn't be hidden in the very dark places of the scene).

I've seen this be a barrier in a couple of games, with The Count of Monte Cristo coming to mind as one that had a particular problem with this that I believe was eventually solved after the game was released.

As to why I play, you might find the article at http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/90444-Play-Peggle-Lose-Weight interesting.

See, playing games is HEALTHY for you! smile

Good luck with your work in the future and please be sure to let us know when your game comes out!

Re: from game developers [Re: onezhelsky] #482542
03/30/09 09:50 AM
03/30/09 09:50 AM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 48,191
Alabama
looney4labs Offline
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Hi ya onezhelsky, and welcome to GameBoomers wave

We always love it when a game developer takes the time to seek our input. puppy


"Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole."
-Roger Caras
Re: from game developers [Re: looney4labs] #482599
03/30/09 12:42 PM
03/30/09 12:42 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,254
Indiana
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Indiana
Hi Oskar: Thanks for asking about our preferences. I think GPM covered everything of importance but I will add my opinion. I agree that timed games are undesirable. A game should have either no timer or the option of relaxed mode. I don't like dark scenes but I do enjoy crisp colorful scenes with everything drawn in proportion. Hidden objects should not be so tiny it requires a magnifying glass to find.

The games I like best are the ones that take me to many different places around the world. I like to hunt for hidden treasure, solve mysteries, rescue people and save the world. I like games that have bonus items to search for in each scene like coins or gems that accumulate throughout the game. I also enjoy occasional scenes that have only one item to search for, like 20 keys or 12 puzzle pieces or 30 bottles. It holds my interest better if the hidden objects are part of the story or at least pertinent to the location. Some players enjoy voices and music, but I usually play with the sound turned off. A lot of dialogue is not important to progress the story line - Just enough to let me know where I need to go and what I need to look for.

The interactive HOGS are the best. I like to hunt for tools to open things or maps that reveal locations or directions to follow. I like mini games as long as there is an option to skip or plenty of hints. If I get stuck on a mini game and can't progress, I lose interest and quit the game. The game should take at least 4 or 5 hours to complete.

The Hidden Expedition games, Dream Chronicles, Mushroom Age, Return to Ravenhearst, Azada, and Magic Encyclopedia are games that I keep replaying because they are exceptionally well made. Good luck and I look forward to the release of your new games.


Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons ...
for thou art crunchy and good with ketchup.
Re: from game developers [Re: ScarletDragon] #482633
03/30/09 02:09 PM
03/30/09 02:09 PM
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,690
Hiding Under a Rock
gamenut Offline
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What everyone else has mentioned and emphasis on the 'too small' and hidden in too dark a place...and when the graphics are not 'sharp' enough...so that each object appears as itself and not almost blended in with the others! I enjoy the mysterious and spooky! Loved Return to Ravenhurst! also enjoyed Hidden Expedition: Amazon, Annabel, and many others. and NO timer options AND also like the Skip option for puzzles(would be nice too if you do use the Skip option that it shows the solving of the puzzle!!!..then you can have the replay!).

Re: from game developers [Re: gamenut] #482681
03/30/09 04:30 PM
03/30/09 04:30 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 347
Central New Mexico
jachern Offline
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GPM: Good job. You explained everything that I like and dislike in an IHOG very well.
I would also like a way to play a game without any 3D moving graphics. The Annabel game was fun, but after playing the demo, I was nauseous so I did not buy it. I wish it could have had a choice to turn it off when the character was moving down halls.


Jackie
Re: from game developers [Re: jachern] #482756
03/30/09 08:39 PM
03/30/09 08:39 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,187
Sacramento, CA
Sly One Offline
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GPM YOU ROCK!! I couldn't have said it better.

Re: from game developers [Re: Sly One] #482813
03/30/09 10:25 PM
03/30/09 10:25 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 520
St louis, Mo
owlluv Offline
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I would like to also add to the previous posts that graphics in the IHOGS are extremely important--as an older adult playing I like the graphics that are realistic and not too cartoony. Those seem to gear more to children and young adults. One in mind is Holly ; A Christmas Tale. I believe that is the name of it. Thank you for asking our input.


Evie

Doldrums getting you down? Post w/ the Boomers and turn those frowns upside down!
Re: from game developers [Re: owlluv] #482817
03/30/09 10:30 PM
03/30/09 10:30 PM
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 37,249
near Yosemite in California
Marian Online content
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Marian  Online Content
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I basically agree with all that has been said, so have nothing useful to add to that. I would like to say, though, that I have thoroughly enjoyed all the games that you mentioned that your team is responsible for. Thank you for many enjoyable hours of gaming! smile wave

Re: from game developers [Re: Marian] #482918
03/31/09 08:35 AM
03/31/09 08:35 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,314
NY
Springchicken Offline
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Hi Oskar. I played the Fishdom and Rise of Atlantis and liked them a lot. I'm sure you'd make the great IHOGs. I just add a little of my opinion. The story is important, I like the mystery, detective story, but not too much reading. The graphics should be clear, the scenes not clustered with the objects. The items should be in some way relevant to the scene. The most borring factor in a HOG for me is when the same objects repeat in every scene over and over. The Serpent of Isis is the best IHOG amongst the recent games. Good Luck! wave


Why resist temptation? There will always be more. Don Herold.
Re: from game developers [Re: Springchicken] #482920
03/31/09 08:56 AM
03/31/09 08:56 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,490
Western New York
NYLady Offline
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Oskar,

Hope you didn't get more advice than you were looking for smile

I think you should look for the games that have sold the best to get the best idea of what we want.

IHOGS (Interactive Hidden Object) seem to be the most popular.
Just finding objects has become "old hat". We want to take the objects we find and do things with them. Like after finding the key... open a door, etc. We prefer voice overs to reading the story.

I am terrible at finding old threads but perhaps Ana can give you a link to the best games of 2008 to show you what we like.

Mystery seems to be a popular storyline for IHOGS.

Here is the link to the favorite games of last year and they are broken down by genre GAMELIST





Prices are going up everywhere except in our incomes.
Re: from game developers [Re: NYLady] #482922
03/31/09 09:08 AM
03/31/09 09:08 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 77,671
In the Naughty Corner
BrownEyedTigre Online happy
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In the Naughty Corner
NYLady, the list is linked at the top of the forum under GB Annual Game Lists. Just scroll to the bottom.

Ana wave


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Re: from game developers [Re: NYLady] #482931
03/31/09 09:23 AM
03/31/09 09:23 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,601
Waukegan, Il.
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Hi Oskar love your games. bravo I agree with everything written here. Like Gamenut, I prefer games with a spooky atmosphere and realistic objects like in Legend of Sleepy Hollow or Dr. Lynch Grave Secrets. Those are my favorites. Not big on cartoonish characters. Don't like objects that are too easy to find.

Thanks again for asking Oskar
Kim


You don't have to attend every argument you're invited to.
Re: from game developers [Re: GPM] #483233
04/01/09 02:43 AM
04/01/09 02:43 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 14
russia
onezhelsky Offline OP
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onezhelsky  Offline OP
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russia
Originally Posted By: GPM
Hi, Oskar!


hi, gpm - i am _really_ impressed by your post. this is so big, great and filled by "must have" points - so i steal your post and forward to other developers! smile thanks!

if possible - can you answer on my next post (about story types)? this will be really great help and will help in great games developing - too. smile


sr. producer and game designer
Playrix Ent. (http://www.playrix.com/)

(fishdom, 4 elements, rise of atlantis and much more)
Re: from game developers [Re: onezhelsky] #483235
04/01/09 02:49 AM
04/01/09 02:49 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 14
russia
onezhelsky Offline OP
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russia
i am really, really, really impressed by our feedback and your opinions. really thanks to all of your mails and all your ideas. you and your feedback really important to making new good games! smile

and - as already posted on this forum - developers usually don't understood users. so - it's good step forward.

i have next question. can you make your posts and opinions, please?

what type of stories you like? are some stories - more good for you, or not? what are most important in story - you have in hog game? _why_ you like story in game, what you seek for in game story?

you and your family? intrigue and mystery - like in detectives? fantasy in new world - like dream chronicles? some "hidden in shadows" knowledge - like "daVinchi code"? some horror items you don't have in reality - like "sleepy hallow"? something else? what touch your hearts and will be interested for your side?

Last edited by onezhelsky; 04/01/09 03:07 AM.

sr. producer and game designer
Playrix Ent. (http://www.playrix.com/)

(fishdom, 4 elements, rise of atlantis and much more)
Re: from game developers [Re: ScarletDragon] #483236
04/01/09 02:59 AM
04/01/09 02:59 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 14
russia
onezhelsky Offline OP
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onezhelsky  Offline OP
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russia
Originally Posted By: ScarletDragon

The games I like best are the ones that take me to many different places around the world. I like to hunt for hidden treasure, solve mysteries, rescue people and save the world. I like games that have bonus items to search for in each scene like coins or gems that accumulate throughout the game. I also enjoy occasional scenes that have only one item to search for, like 20 keys or 12 puzzle pieces or 30 bottles. It holds my interest better if the hidden objects are part of the story or at least pertinent to the location. Some players enjoy voices and music, but I usually play with the sound turned off. A lot of dialogue is not important to progress the story line - Just enough to let me know where I need to go and what I need to look for.


you open my eyes - ScarletDragon - really, really thanks! also - you like some games - i like too. smile

one more question. are you play Nick Chase: A Detective Story? what are wrong in this game - from your point? too dark "story and world". and too hard\not interested puzzles?
do i miss something?

this is really fantastic developer's work - from my point. but "developers did lost the key". did lost most important items in projects - so project are not succesfull.


sr. producer and game designer
Playrix Ent. (http://www.playrix.com/)

(fishdom, 4 elements, rise of atlantis and much more)
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