Wee!
So I checked out eCollege; think I'm going there (does anyone have a phone for them; nothing on the website).

How does this look (for about $600)

2.8Ghz Intel Dual-Core E5500 2MB Cache FSB 800
Stock Intel LGA775 Heatsink and Fan
ASUS P5G41T-M (Intel X4500 Video HDMI, G41, PCI-E, 4xSATA2, 2xDDR3)
4GB (2GBx2) PC3 10666 DDR3 1333Mhz Memory Lifetime Warranty
500GB 7200RPM 16MB Cache Serial ATA300 (Major Brand)
22X LG SATA Dual Layer DVD+/-RW/CDRW w/Nero
1GB GeForce GT 220 GDDR2 PCI-E DVI/HDMI (Major Brand)
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 32bit
Foxconn Black FX-TS001A (3 5.25, 5 3.5) Fan, Front Audio/USB
ISO400 Foxconn Stock Power Supply
Onboard LAN included
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Audio 7.1 PCI-Ex
Wires and Cables ran behind case and tied up for maximum airflow
Three year hassle free pickup and return


The only thing I'm clueless on is the CPU, motherboard heatsink/fan (they gave me about 5 choices). Also the video card: want an NvIdia but there there about 5 choices for each memory!
What's the diff?
Anyway thanks
caz

Great start! One thing I would change in this particular setup is the OS. I'd get the 64-bit Windows 7 Home Premium, as it will make use of all 4 GB of that RAM. I'm not sure about the CPU, power supply or the video card, but I'm sure Jenny and Inland can help you out there. The motherboard already has on-board sound, so unless you have a reason to add that sound card, you don't really need to.

The main thing is what your budget is and exactly what you plan on doing with the computer, such as what kind of games you play.

They use email to respond to customer support. From my own experience with the one friend who contacted them by email, they responded the same day.

thanks!
I do play adventure but also things like Bioshock, Batman Asylum {actiony), Would like to run Adobe Creative Suite. Do graphics (anyone need any graphics? Things are slow here).
caz

I was editing about the sound card when you posted... I'm only coming up with $546 with that configuration. Is that around what your budget is?

Maybe I can squeeze a few more lemons!

Do you have a phone?
I meant for the site.

caz

EDIT: Is the sound as good as a SC (I always wondered about that.
c

You should wait for Jenny and Inland to weigh in - they know way more about things like video cards than I do. I have the E8400 CPU in my Windows 7 computer and the E5500 in my XP computer. I haven't tried to play anything like Bioshock on the E5500, so I really don't know if it's got enough "oomph" for games like that.

That would be one place where I would "squeeze that lemon" a bit! The power supply might be slightly puny too. For only $9 they will put in a 550 watt which gives you a little more breathing room. That video card is the one I really don't know about. Hey, maybe if you go with the on-board sound, you can put that $49 towards something else!

I would stick with the onboard sound, as long as you have a slot where you can put a card later if needed. I say this because after having mine for over four years my onboard went out on the left side. I went and bought an inexpensive sound card and put it in an available slot. Add the software, change the defaults and I am off again. I always use speakers and headphones so the sound is good anyway. If it has to come through the computer speakers or the monitor, might not sound so good.

Depends on the on-board sound. On both my fairly expensive (at the time) Gigabyte board and my inexpensive Zotac board, the on-board sound is quite impressive from my really good computer speakers.

Whether that build is going to be adequate for you depends on a lot of factors.

If you plan on running Batman and Bioshock at high resolutions, like 1920x1200 or even 1600x1200, the Geforce GT 220 isn't going to cut it. I'd recommend a bare minimum of an HD 5770, with the GT 260, HD 6850, HD 6870 and GTX 470 better options. Price/performance-wise, the HD 6850 is a great option.

The CPU is also two generations out of date. Again, it's okay if you're going to run everything at 1280x1024 or 1024x768, but at high resolutions it will struggle in games. Fortunately an upgrade to a Core 2 Quad isn't too expensive.

Or you can spend a little extra basing your system around, say, an i5-760, which will give you both quad core AND a newer, faster processor.

For a gaming system, 4GB of RAM is a minimum--getting 8GB would be great, but don't do it if the $50 price difference means getting a low-end CPU or video card. Do note that Creative Suite will always be RAM-hungry, so as far as it's concerned, the more RAM the better.

Definitely go for the 64-bit edition of Windows 7. At this point there's really no reason not to, and you'll want to take advantage of as much RAM as possible. The only drawback to 64-bit is that some old hardware (like printers and scanners) lack a 64-bit driver, so keep that in mind if you plan on plugging in any old peripherals.

Once you've decided on the base specs, like the processor and the video card, you'll also want to carefully consider the other base components, like the choice of motherboard and case. The case is only a really important consideration if you plan to do any work on the computer yourself, but if you do, then spending an extra $100 or so on a good case can make a big difference in the long run. Better cases can also supply better cooling and airflow, and/or can have quieter fans.

Similarly, the more expensive motherboards have more expandability, allowing for more upgrade options in the future.

Nowadays discrete sound cards only make a marginal difference to sound quality, and then only if you have good speakers. However, they can still be worthwhile for gamers, because onboard sound means the CPU has to spend a portion of its time generating sound in addition to its other work. A discrete soundcard, on the other hand, offloads that work, allowing the CPU to do more important things. In games that means you can actually have a noticeable increase in performance if you have a sound card.

Be warned, though: the so-called Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Audio is just a rebadged Audigy 2 SE, and as such offers NO hardware acceleration. Those above-mentioned performance improvements won't happen with this card. So you'd probably want an X-Fi Titanium, which adds a lot to the cost. Again, you might be better served spending your $100 elsewhere.

Since the price difference between a 500GB drive and a 1TB drive is $14, I also recommend the upgrade. Don't forget you always want to leave at least ~25% of your hard drive free in order to keep things running smoothly, and program installations like games can take up a lot of room. Some modern games are 30GB in size. Alternatively, get two hard drives, and use the second for data storage. Don't install programs on it, though--you want programs generally to all be installed on your main hard drive. Otherwise things can get very messy.

The stock PSU offered is of questionable quality. The PSU is going to be supplying power to all your components, and if it fails, it can do damage to connected components. Additionally, if the PSU isn't supplying strong, consistent voltage to all your components, it can cause instability. So it's important to invest a bit in a good PSU, both to eliminate headaches and to protect your investment. Getting a PSU from a respected company--like Antec, Corsair or OCZ--isn't a guarantee against problems, but it's a better bet than using a lower end stock or Foxconn part.

The choice of heatsink shouldn't matter too much unless a) you want to overclock your system, which I don't recommend, or b) you want your CPU fan to be quiet. Otherwise, go with the stock heatsink and spend your money somewhere else. If you're looking to control noise or temperature, you'll want to spend on the case before you worry about the heatsink.

(Personally, I installed a pretty good heatsink, but set my system to dynamically control CPU fan speeds. The result is that most of the time my CPU fan only spins at around 1000 rpm, but the temperature is still at a nice cool 39 degrees Celsius. I could have set the fans to run at maximum all the time, which brings the temperatures down to around 34, but also significantly increase noise, since it more than double the fan speed. Ultimately my current machine runs quieter than it did with a stock heatsink, while the CPU temperatures have gone down.

However, none of that compares to the difference it made switching from an old case with 80mm fans to a new case with 120mm fans.)

[EDIT:] Oh hey look, it's a wall of text! It didn't FEEL that long when I wrote it, I swear!

But it's a beautiful thing, Demosthenes!

I agree with Draclvr and Demosthenes. The Geforce GT 220 won't be satisfactory if you're going to be playing games like Bioshock. Make sure you get a good quality power supply with plenty of wattage. And you should look into getting a current generation processor. If you were only playing adventure games, you could go with what you've listed, but since you'll be playing other genres you need to consider their higher requirements.

Tanks guys. A lot to mull over. I still think it's odd there's no contact info AT ALL on the site though.
caz

Either the "About Us" or the "Contact Us" links on their website shows their email address and mailing address. If you want their phone number, it is easy enough to find one with a Google search.

Wow must be my browser but I can't see them at all. Try a different one.

So as far as case and motherboard I guess more expensive means better?
caz

Here's a screenshot of their contact webpage uploaded to imageshack:

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/9077/picture1cl.png

Thanks Jen.
I tried another browser and there it was!
Strange.
caz

Not necessarily. Sometimes you'll be paying for features you won't use.

With cases, you may also find the most expensive cases are too large to fit where you want them.

However, it's generally true that the more expensive motherboards come with more features, have more expansion slots, more USB ports, and use more modern chipsets, and more expensive cases have more room for expansion, more room to work with if you have a bulky video card, and may have more fans.

As far as motherboards are concerned, if you were to get an i5 CPU (or other compatible CPU like the i3 or i7,) I'd probably recommend one of the Gigabyte GA-P55 lines, or the P7P55D-E board. The exact choice would depend on whether you need lots of USB ports, whether you might ever run the computer with two video cards, and so on, so it's a little tricky.

Which case you choose depends on how big you want the computer to be, how many hard drives, cd-rom drives, and so on you need to be able to plug in, how important it is that your components run at low temperatures, and personal taste in terms of looks and noise levels. Anything from Lian Li, Antec, or CoolerMaster is liable to at least be pretty good.

Lian Li cases are usually made of aluminum, (which makes them light,) have a lot of hard drive space and provide good cooling. The aluminum does mean that the case may flex a bit: it's not as sturdy as steel.

Antec cases are made largely of steel and plastic, so they're heavier and cheaper to build, and tend to be larger for the same price. Some parts of their cases can be a little flimsy, though, due to the reliance on plastic for hinges and doors.

CoolerMaster tends to emphasize airflow, so they tend to have a lot of fans and vents to rush air through the system. Unfortunately that can also mean they suck up a lot of dust, and they can be a bit noisier. Their cases also tend to emphasize tool-less design, which can make swapping components easier, but also can be a little less durable.

I suggest you look online at pictures of the cases you want to consider and try to get an idea of how big they are and what they look like. Consider also how important noise levels are, and how often you intend to open up the computer and poke around inside.

Wow Demothesnes!
How about I tell you my budget and you tell me what I should get. Really appreciate it.
As far as working on the case the only thing is I might add a soundcard if I'm not happy with the onboard (still confused about that (does that depend on the motherboard?)

As for the motherboard I dont think I'll be expanding (except for the SC, maybe). Maybe 4 USB max.

caz

That's what you need to let these folks know - your budget and how you intend to use the computer.

If your budget can stand it, I'd really lean towards Demosthenes' suggestion to go with the current generation of processors - a Core i3 or Core i5.

As I said before the integrated sound on my mid-range Gigabyte board and my low-end Zotac board are both very good. But then I have some very good computer speakers.

How's this shaping up?

3.2Ghz Intel Core i5-650 4MB Cache Dual-Core
Stock Intel LGA1156 Heatsink and Fan
GIGABYTE GA-H55M-UD2H (Intel H55 HDMI, 2xPCI-E, 6xSATA2, 4xDDR3)
4GB (2GBx2) PC3 10666 DDR3 1333Mhz Memory Lifetime Warranty
500GB 7200RPM 16MB Cache Serial ATA300 (Major Brand)
22X LG SATA Dual Layer DVD+/-RW/CDRW w/Nero
1GB GeForce GT 240 GDDR3 PCI-E DVI/HDMI (Major Brand)
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit
LIAN LI PC-7B plus II Black Aluminum (4 5.25, 5 3.5) 2 Fans, Front Audio/USB
650watt Stock Supply
Onboard LAN included
Onboard Sound included
Wires and Cables ran behind case and tied up for maximum airflow
Three year hassle free pickup and return

$812!
Think I can do that.
As for the HD my last one was 160 and was never more than half full.

Still confused about the video; the 430 is actually cheaper than the 240. Is it a diferent card altogether?

Thanks, caz

It sure is. You can compare the two cards here
http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/9077/picture1cl.png

I'd go for the GTX 460 though, or at least the GTS 450. Those have GDDR5, which is faster than GDDR3.

Thanks Jen but this a ecollegepc screen.
Anyway you cleared up something for me; look for the later numbers.
caz

Me likey! I'd still have to lean towards a better video card. Maybe you can get a cheaper case to help make it up???

Video card naming is an inexact science. Generally speaking, the first number indicates which generation you're looking at, while the numbers that come after give a rough idea of how fast the card is compared to other cards.

ATI's naming conventions add a third variable: the family. So the HD 6850 is from the 6th generation of Radeon HD cards, it belongs to the 8xx family (making it faster than the 7xx family, but slower than the 9xx,) and it's faster than a 6830 but slower than a 6870.

Generations of cards do generally get faster overall, and they come with new features, but the last generation's fastest cards are still faster than this generation's slowest. So yes, the 240 is faster than the 430, even though it's a last-gen card.

Even those rules aren't consistent: ATI's new HD 6870 and 6850 are actually a bit slower than the 5870 and 5850 they replaced, and the cards that are supposed to be their new upper range are now the 6950 and 6970.

The upshot is you can't really tell much from the number associated with the card, and you end up having to do a lot of research.

That said, I do recommend you bump up the video card a bit. The video card and the CPU are the two most important factors dictating how well your games will run. If one or the other is too slow, it will bottleneck the whole system. A GeForce GTX 460 (not the SE version, which is a crippled part) or a Radeon HD 6850 would probably be perfect if you can manage it: like Drac says, you can cut the case to a cheaper to make up for it, if necessary. A case like the Coolermaster Elite 430 might be a decent compromise. The Antec Three Hundred isn't bad either, but it lacks room for very long video cards (greater than 11 inches in length).

An HD 5770 video card is still what I consider a bare minimum, and faster than a GT 240. However, it will still struggle in some modern games at high resolutions, which is why I recommend something a step faster like the HD 6850 or GTX 460 1GB.

Also consider carefully whether a dual core CPU is enough: a lot of games recently have had minimum requirements of a dual-core processor, with recommended requirements of a quad core. The extra $99 for an i5-760 may prove to be well worth it in the long-run. Yes, the clock speed is slightly lower, but the quad cores more than make up for it in modern games.

The motherboard you chose is still one of the smaller mini-ATX models, which should work fine if you don't plan on any major upgrades in the future, like adding a second video card. However, for an extra $25 you can bump it to the GA-P55-USB3, which includes two USB 3.0 ports (possibly quite useful in the next few years,) and extra USB ports and card slots. The GA-P55-UD3, for a bit more, adds a couple of 6 Gbps SATA ports, which won't be necessary unless you decide to add a very fast SSD drive in a couple of years.

Given the size of the motherboard and the power draw of the other components, there's not much point to a 650 Watt generic power supply--if the supply really is capable of outputting that much power, which with generic power supplies is usually not the case. Maybe consider dropping to a more reasonable 550 Watt PSU, which will hopefully will save a little on energy costs, or spend extra on a better QUALITY supply like the Antec EarthWatts EA650, which will probably be more reliable, more efficient, and give you more power for the same claimed wattage.

Okay, quit ganging up on me! I'll get the high speed internet one of these days, like maybe when I can ever get the new computer.

What is the difference between the 32 bit and 64 bit anyway? What does that mean?

Is there someway to bookmark this thread for future use without having to do a search and I'll probably never be able to find it since I didn't start it?

Just reading all of this is giving me a headache. I'm probably going to ask for you all to tell me what to get and then if I have to whittle it down due to costs, go from there! Or I'll end up at Dell.

Good luck cazziejoe! Let us know what you end up with and how you like it.