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Re: ===[**CDM**]=== [Re: Lex] #1272182
04/28/22 11:06 PM
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ACCOSTS (Shoot-a-darn – I remember thinking about 'cost' for "dollars spent", but I didn't make the connection: accost=approach.)

Hi Sue. Are there exceptions to the anagram fodder rule? I saw these examples recently:

Farewell horrid lepidoptera – none seen for ages (6-3)
Before anagramming, "era" needs to be replaced with 'o'.

It's crazy changing what comes before pi (7)
Before anagramming, "what comes before pi" needs to be replaced with 'omicron'.

Neglectful having left off dicky bow (9)
Before anagramming, the "l" needs to be deleted.

wave2




Re: ===[**CDM**]=== [Re: Lex] #1272196
04/29/22 07:40 AM
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Well solved, Helmer! This belt cost a lot! ===[**CDM**]===

I think the clues you're asking about are borderline, at best. The first one (toodle pip) is arguably fair because the letter replacement was cued.

The second one (moronic) is not a legal cryptic (to a purist) and is probably of British origin. They're often more relaxed with the rules. razz

Can't solve the third one off the bat so I don't know if it's legal.

wave


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Re: ===[**CDM**]=== [Re: Pandora] #1272198
04/29/22 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Pandora
...and is probably of British origin. They're often more relaxed with the rules. razz


Wash your mouth out with soap and water, Madame Noodlemeister! Anyone trying that one over hear these days would be run out of town rotfl

We do not allow the anagramming of a synonym (indirect anagram), but what we do allow is modification of the synonym by adding to it (either in the middle or on the ends) provided the letter order of the synonym is not altered and there is an appropriate indicator.

For example:
Giant can, accepting thanks -> Titan
Walk holding universal jeweller's tool -> loupe

Can't figure the last one either - all I can come up with is "genuflect" think


To waste one second of one's life is a betrayal of one's self.
I wonder what's on television...?
Re: ===[**CDM**]=== [Re: Lex] #1272233
04/29/22 02:20 PM
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Now now, Rog - no offense meant. I don't think you, personally, have ever been guilty. kissy


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Re: ===[**CDM**]=== [Re: Urban Worrier] #1272238
04/29/22 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Urban Worrier
we [allow] modification of [anagram fodder] by adding to it (either in the middle or on the ends) provided … there is an appropriate indicator

Thanks, UW. "Genuflect" is correct, so the same could be said about anagram-fodder deletions, it seems. smile

Re: ===[**CDM**]=== [Re: Lex] #1272239
04/29/22 05:35 PM
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Thank you for the clarifications, Pandora – and the belt, too! puppy

Expand big showstopper (6)

Re: ===[**CDM**]=== [Re: Lex] #1272256
04/29/22 10:04 PM
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(Penny drops) I see - "dicky" as an indicator! Don't know what Lex thinks but I would say that was perfectly legit over here. What about in the States, Sue?


To waste one second of one's life is a betrayal of one's self.
I wonder what's on television...?
Re: ===[**CDM**]=== [Re: Lex] #1272261
04/30/22 02:57 AM
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Dicky is fine as an indicator, so anagram of neglectful with one l removed (left off) = genuflect thumbsup

I see that Helmer is becoming a very diligent student of crossword lore... lol scared

Last edited by Lex; 04/30/22 02:59 AM.

Life is what happens while you're making other plans.

Re: ===[**CDM**]=== [Re: Lex] #1272267
04/30/22 07:48 AM
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(Penny drops) I see - "dicky" as an indicator! Don't know what Lex thinks but I would say that was perfectly legit over here. What about in the States, Sue?


Dicky is a British word. Over here, it's a neckpiece. Excuse me, I have to put on my trainers and pop round to the chemist to buy crisps. smile


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Re: ===[**CDM**]=== [Re: Lex] #1272269
04/30/22 08:29 AM
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Get me some biscuits and chips while you're there... smile


To waste one second of one's life is a betrayal of one's self.
I wonder what's on television...?
Re: ===[**CDM**]=== [Re: Lex] #1272296
04/30/22 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Lex
Helmer is becoming a very diligent student of crossword lore

What a nice thing to say. Thank you, Lex. Maybe I can live up to that.

For me, the learning curve seems similar to picking up a foreign language. I'm not well-read. I don't care about literary classics or entertainment industry details. I'm not interested in geography or history, either. Add British idioms, unfamiliar abbreviations and slang to the mix, and solving clues becomes a real challenge.

My learning plan is: Make mistakes! Ask questions!

Here's another question. Are synonyms directional? For example, revamp=change. That is, reference books list change as a synonym of revamp, but they do not list revamp as a synonym of change. How do setters determine whether their choice of synonyms is fair?

The current cryptic clue in this thread is mine:

Expand big showstopper (6)

I can't tell whether 'expand' is a good choice because some references don't list the answer as a synonym of my direct, but they do list my direct as a synonym of the answer.

Perhaps, this is more fair:

Fill out big showstopper (6)

think









Re: ===[**CDM**]=== [Re: Pandora] #1272298
04/30/22 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Pandora
Over here, [dicky is] a neckpiece.
Interesting. I would've guessed it's a pejorative adjective for a jerk's behavior. smile

Re: ===[**CDM**]=== [Re: Lex] #1272345
05/01/22 05:35 AM
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The meaning of dicky may depend upon spelling: I think dickey may be the more usual spelling for a clothing item, and I wonder whether dicey is related to dicky for the wobbly/uncertain meaning.

Helmer, I think that a US purist would probably say that the synonym had to be listed both ways, but the GB approach would probably be more relaxed/tolerant.

catrub


Life is what happens while you're making other plans.

Re: ===[**CDM**]=== [Re: Lex] #1272351
05/01/22 07:20 AM
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Helmer, I think that a US purist would probably say that the synonym had to be listed both ways, but the GB approach would probably be more relaxed/tolerant.


Denis and I locked horns over this many times. As a US purist, I think the synonym has to be listed both ways. The point being that a cryptic should be solvable and fun, not obscure and frustrating. A well written cryptic clue is something to be admired.

smile


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Re: ===[**CDM**]=== [Re: Lex] #1272415
05/02/22 12:08 AM
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I think I ought to toss the current cryptic and start over (although maybe "to sweeten a deal" could've been the direct for FATTEN). Excuse me.

Impoverished Lola captivated by surgeon's bills (7)



Re: ===[**CDM**]=== [Re: Lex] #1272418
05/02/22 02:56 AM
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My turn to be dense: why is ten a showstopper? (Ten out of ten perhaps, or even a perfect ten, but that does not seem strong enough to me)

I think fatten is fine as a synonym of expand, and I remember the clashes between Pandora and Denis over some of his rather far-fetched synonyms...! lol

Last edited by Lex; 05/02/22 11:16 AM.

Life is what happens while you're making other plans.

Re: ===[**CDM**]=== [Re: Lex] #1272471
05/02/22 03:43 PM
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Hi Lex! wave I'd chosen "showstopper" as a synonym for 'ten' because each of those words is listed as a synonym of the other in a Merriam-Webster thesaurus. My plan now is to verify that synonym choices are listed bi-directionally in a valid reference book. Does the forum have any official reference catalog?

Re: ===[**CDM**]=== [Re: Helmer] #1272506
05/02/22 09:13 PM
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dollars yes

Impoverished = anagram ind.
Surgeon's = dr
captivated = container ind.


The best math you can learn is how to calculate the future cost of current decisions.
Re: ===[**CDM**]=== [Re: Lex] #1272529
05/03/22 03:38 PM
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You cleared those bills nicely, Sherlock (surgeons=drs): ===[**CDM**]===

puppy

Re: ===[**CDM**]=== [Re: Helmer] #1272542
05/03/22 07:11 PM
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Thank you, Helmer! dance

Drops in after God (4)


The best math you can learn is how to calculate the future cost of current decisions.
Re: ===[**CDM**]=== [Re: Lex] #1272543
05/03/22 08:24 PM
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Ra+in grin


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Re: ===[**CDM**]=== [Re: Pandora] #1272545
05/04/22 12:00 AM
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Here's your belt, Sue! grin And may the fourth be with you. ===[**CDM**]===


The best math you can learn is how to calculate the future cost of current decisions.
Re: ===[**CDM**]=== [Re: Lex] #1272567
05/04/22 08:06 AM
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Thank you, Cheryl! May the fourth be with you, too. grin

Continuing with your theme...

God riding draft horse (4)


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Re: ===[**CDM**]=== [Re: Lex] #1272600
05/04/22 08:53 PM
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Direct on the left smile


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Re: ===[**CDM**]=== [Re: Lex] #1272608
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drafthorse puppy

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