Back in 1996, Quandary published and article called "Adult Games... But are they really?" You can read it here
http://www.quandaryland.com/jsp/dispArticle.jsp?index=78

What do you think of as an adult game?

I think adult games strictly refer to matter which younger crowds should not play (at least without parental consent). Such games can be found at the following URL, but I warn whoever wants to visit that it has cartoon nudity (and dancing genitalia) plastered all over the website. Redfire Software

There are a lot of games which have erotic material in them (Phantasmagoria II, etc). I know a lot of parents who would not want their children playing such games. I believe this is where the "adult games" classification comes into play.

There is, of course, gore and what not in first-person shooters, but I don't consider them to be adult-only games because teens play them too. I think society has become more desensitized than previous generations, so parents allowing their teenage children to play said games have become more accepting.

For me, I would go with sexuality being the most important factor in deeming a title an adult game or not. I grew up in the 80s. I must say that I wasn't shocked by much back then nor now.

So, that is my opinion on the matter. I think being from a different generation would bring about different convictions of such matters by others. My generation was brought up on horror sagas, news worse than fantasy (night stalker, wars, you name it), etc. If I were to impose an age limit for a child of mine to view material of adult nature, it would be 11 or 12 (I wouldn't confiscate an adult magazine, game, etc). I'm fairly loose about such a matter. I saw much more before I turned 10 (my cousin and friends were bad influences). I think I turned out ok.


Gamehound

Adult games IMHO doesn't necessarily mean X rated for me. The games below were games I wouldn't feel comfortable letting Jason play when he was 15.

• Phantasmagoria I and II
• POV
• Leisure Suit Larry - all of them
• Blue Heat

Inferno

IMO, the general populace has a skewed sense of what's appropriate for kids and what isn't.

I think violent blood & gore & fighting for the sake of fighting is what kids shouldn't be exposed to. Some of the action games have absolutely no plot and the whole point of the game is to kill more people, animals, monsters, etc. Constantly witnessing violence makes violence more acceptable.

Sex, on the other hand, is a natural part of life and hurts no one unless it is not consensual.

Melanie

Melanie, i share your view.

Why is mindless violence acceptable but eroticism not? Which is more harmful?

Truth of the matter is all kids have access to porn. Remember how young you were when you sneak peek your first. Im also a firm believer that nudity loses its novelty. And it's amusing to wonder if how long can some kid keep up paying $39.99 to "score" sum rendered cleavage. Keeping them away is going to draw them even closer. As it did to us. Heh.

What truely boggles my mind are shows like MTV's JAckass series where coolness is being a moron and inflect self pain. Now that is one thing i hope will never creep into games. That's just degenerate. R+ for dull dumbness.

Well, I've always said I'm raising adults not children. I can't think of anything that I would specifically keep away from my daughters. That doesn't mean I'd like to see them immersed in it. I agree with Senor ("Manny, can I call you Manny?") that senseless and mindless pain and degradation of yourself in public is not a healthy trend. I rather think that is a sophmoric genre, nothing "adult" about it.

happy trails,

Carolyn

Hi

I suppose tv/cinema censorship standards would be roughly applicable - but even so I would vet a game myself before allowing a child to play it.

And I think a FMV game might need more scrutiny than a cartoony one....

Cheers.

Mad

I'm with you, Mad--I wouldn't let a child play a game that I wasn't familiar with, unless I had played it first. And of course they may sneak off and do things that we don't approve of, but our job as parents is to do the best we can to protect them from things they aren't old enough to really understand.

But I recognize the fact that I'm from a totally different generation--I was a teen-ager in the 1940s and life was very different then...

This is a tricky question. My son has played many games, some of the FPS with gore and mindless violence, some with a hint of erotica in. Its the level to which they are exposed which is the problem.

We play host to sleepovers at the weekends and all of the lads are told strict guidelines, contravene that and you don't come back. No accessing porn sites or dubious pictures on the net (remember we can use recent activity checks on the pc to check that out - don't tell them though!!) sensible surfing and messaging. They have graduated from FPS to strategy and RPG... FPS is boring!!!

As far as the LSL games go, I think the innuendoes go straight over younger players heads but I have always been wary what they are allowed to play.

I really think it's up to the parents to monitor whatever their kids want to play or watch. My 9yo son loves to play Morrowind, but the puzzles are too difficult. I caught him running around with his character nude just to hear all of the funny comments by other NPCs. I immediately checked that there wasn't any "real" nudity (my husband had played and we hadn't seen any) and then let him continue playing. Otherwise, any kind of sexuality upsets him. In action movies, he gets upset about the kissing and usually comments, "Not in this movie, too!" He also handles violence well and is very non-violent himself. We just set the gore on low for the teen rated games and mature rated ones are off limits. (i.e. Silent Hill 2 which gave me the shivers)

On the other hand, my 11yo daughter won't even watch the news. She insists I turn it off if she's in the room. It gives her nightmares. She refuses to watch horror flicks that are PG-13 (Darkness Falls) even though all of her friends watch them. At the same age, I was watching Halloween. As far as kissing goes, it seems to interest her, but anything more, she doesn't care to watch.

I guess each child is different as to what level of violence or sexuality they can handle and it's the parents responsibility to know and respect these limits. (whether or not the child knows them)

I use the ratings as guide lines only. Sometimes I'm amazed at what earns an adult rating versus what is considered suitable for children. Many movies have very suggestive and offensive language that passes the test for PG or PG-13 but show one bare chest and it's rated R. I would rather my children see the later than hear the former.

Wow- Airlines69!!!! Woohoooo..... Now anyone played this one??? Adventure??? Should be in its own genre: NotJustAdventure.

"Se

There was a discussion on this here in gameboomers. There are a number of gameboomers who are OK with letting their children see violence, even what I would consider extreme violence on the screen (we were talking about movies and TV shows, I think, not games) but were not OK with sexual content. The arguement was something along the lines of "they won't do the violence but they will get the idea on the other stuff". I'm paraphrasing here, so I hope I got it right. I don't think I did the reasoning justice, one of the few opinions on gameboomers I had trouble understanding. Needless to say it was not my opinion. So, for those of you who had that opinion, you might want to post here, as I want to be fair and I don't want to misquote you.

I think many computer games are done for people who are OK with violence, but are not OK with seeing any sort of a real adult relationship, including a bit of a sexual content. When I play most games, I feel as if they think I am 14. That's one of the things I liked about Post Mortem (small, spoiler here)....... There was one shot where MacPhearson was with a woman, and it was clear they spent the night at his place. The game didn't make a big deal of it, it was just there, in the game, and it was clear they liked each other "in that special way". I was charmed - a game where grownups act like grownups. You know, I thought it would be fine for kids to see that too.

Again - those with different ideas, feel free to post here. I don't want to put "words in your mouth".

This thread has gone off track from what I intended. The question of what is "fit" for kids to view has indeed been discussed before.

The topic as discussed in the Quandary article was somewhat different. It is more along the lines of why call an game an "adult" game simply because it contains nudity, sex, violence, or profanity? Is it adults who enjoy that stuff?
So what do we call games that adults are apt to enjoy. If you don't know what I'm talking about, check out the Quandary article "Adult Games... But are they really?"

When I initially posted, Jenny100, I was trying to answer the question you posed at the end.

As for the latest question you bring up, I believe the "adult" tag placed on games is nothing more than a way of describing sexual content. Adult movies, adult film makers, etc. I think the "adult" tag, at least to some degree, pertains to this naming system.

I have never seen the word "adult" imposed on games with gore/violence. The word mature is used instead. With this in mind, I think mention of mature games as being "adult" might be incorrect, but that is just my interpretation.

So, to answer your question, adults can play any game they choose. The "adult" tag, at least in my opinion, pertains to games with sexual content. Also, the "adult" tag isn't really given to any genre other than sexually-explicit games; much like movies.

I would say the movie rating of NC-17 (formerly X) should suffice as an age limit to determine if someone can purchase a game with sexual content or not.

What do we call games that adults enjoy? Games.

Se

Well, if you think this topic is not on track - I'll do my best to get it back!

I agree that "adult" is a code word in a game - usually for a sexual content, sometimes perhaps for some other extreme content - unusual violence perhaps, or an unusual religious themes. It's not really "adult" as I see it. I think it's also a code word for "games a teen age boy" might not want to play!

If you are talking about games a grown-up person might want to play, well, let's see, I'm a grown-up. I generally look for a game equivalent to good "genre" writing. There can be exceptions. As an example of good "genre" writing, I read contemporary mysteries. Mysteries, though they may have dark themes sometimes, are generally formulaic, in a good way. The protagonist (almost) never dies, and the story ends with a good resolution, something positive happens. Some mysteries are pretty sunny and upbeat, even though someone dies! I regard mysteries as enjoyable forms of popular entertainment. I do like my mysteries where people have "real" relationships, which means there can be a sexual content. Translating this to a game, I'd say I'd like something that works for grownup me as popular entertainment - a good story (reasonably adult situations, not just sexual), acceptable gameplay, fantastic locations (I like popular entertainment), and, well, "fun"! I would like the characters to be not so prissy, not so much "no parent would of a preteen girl would ever object to anything in this game"! However, I do want some form of popular entertainment, I don't want the equivalent of Moby Dick in a game.

Maybe there can be exceptions, and maybe I'd like a deeper game, I don't know. Graphic novels (comics) used to be on the "light" side, but then there is the example of The Sandman series, by Neil Gaiman. It's fantasy, but he isn't afraid to be gritty and direct and sad and there's violence and a sexual content. Then again, he's a brilliant writer, in my opinion. Broken Saints, an interactive graphic novel, also has some intense themes. I don't know, maybe that would work in a game. The question is, who would buy it?

In a different genre, I've placed a bid on ebay for "Knights of the Old Republic" (2003 game of the year in my most game magazines), an RPG game set in the Star Wars Universe. Recognizing that many (most?) game genres have at least OK stories now (no longer the purvue of adventure games), the story and characters are supposed to be spectacular. We'll see how it plays out.

I guess there's a difference between games for adults and "adult" games.

"Adult" games are inappropriate for children because they show gruesome violence and/or graphic sexual situations. The game is even more "adult" if guiding your avatar through the violence or sexual situations provides the only way to progress in the game so that these actions are rewarded.

I would even argue that if a game has a storyline and characters that are so cynical that they provide a bad ethical example for a child, the game is an "adult" game. Salammbo, for instance is an example of a game that is deeply cynical in the way it way it portrays human behavior -- I don't think that a child should play it.

As for games for adults -- to me those are games that entertain but make you think on a deeper level than you typically experience with sheer entertainment. The Monkey Island games are sheer entertainment. Syberia, on the other hand, provides more than sheer entertainment. Many of the best adventure games are games for adults.

Some games fit both categories -- Salammbo is both a game for adults and an "adult" game.

Hi folks,

Jenny100 - well spotted

I wrote that article in 1996 and it probably needs some context for this discussion. I had been reading computer game magazines since the early 1990s (PC Format, PC Review, PC Zone, etc) and most of the reviewers were teenage males. I noticed that the description 'adult' was creeping into their reviews on a regular basis when the elements they were describing were either 'gritty' tough guy 'attitude' or nudge nudge sniggering. Quite frankly, it was a 'juvenile' definition of what was perceived to be 'adult' but it was a description that was gaining currency in the formative years of the industry.

I guess, as an 'adult' who enjoyed computer games, I resented being told (by adolescents) that sexism, innuendo, 'attitude' and gore were features aimed at 'adults' when clearly they were features that appealed overwhelmingly to a juvenile mind. Hence the tone of my article

The label 'adult' in this context has come about largely because the mainstream media perceived (incorrectly as usual) that computer games were for solely for children and the computer game magazines at that time desperately wanted to be seen as 'grown up' so the 'shock' factor was a way of saying "this game is not for kids". But as I say in my article, just because a game is not suitable for children doesn't mean that it is suitable for adults either.

I only wish that I had a dollar for every time that article had been accessed

Cheers

Gordon

I agree with several members that "adult" is a poor choice of labels. Presumably the term would imply that, though the game would be appropriate for "adults" because of their presumably greater maturity and grasp of the pertinent background, it would not be appropriate for "children" who lack that. A game that I am thinking of is one that I am replaying after several years have past, BLACKSTONE CHRONICLES. I think that most of those who have played it, particularly those who have taken the time to extract all of the information that is made available, will grant that it is an "adult" game, though nary a naked body nor even explicit violence appears. I would hesitate to recommend it to children.

Having raised three children, who are now grown and have children of their own, I'd like to add my 2 cents (probably should be 25 cents with inflation the way it is). This is such a controversial subject that I hesitate to jump in but couldn't resist.

I think Americans are too protective of our "children" and don't give them enough credit for common sense. I did not shield my kids from violence, or nudity, or other life experiences. Nor did I encourage their exposure to them. When they chose to be exposed to said experiences I was there to answer any and all questions and was completely honest and forthcoming with my answers. (I'd like to point out here that all of my children are healthy and have never been involved in drugs, crime etc. and seem to have a very healthy attitude about the "taboo" subjects.)

I personally don't believe that we can arbitrality pick an age when a young person is prepared to face the realities of life and shield them up to that age and we certainly should not expect government to do parents jobs for them. Each young person is unique and has enough sense to decide for themselves when that age is if we are trusting and honest with them.

Anyway that's one man's opinion.

The thread was not supposed to be about what is "appropriate" for children. I'm sorry that I didn't make that clear.

The thread is about the characteristics that are being considered when labelling a game "adult" or "mature," which in games mainly seem to involve excessive amounts of violence, sex (usually in the form of mostly-naked women with big "assets"), and profanity - the sorts of things that are more commonly enjoyed by teenaged and college aged boys rather than adults.

I think I'll start another thread on a related subject.

i don't think kids should be kept from playing games, especially adventure games, even if they're a bit violent or explixit. after all, they're just games. I know GTA III, for example can be a bit "grown up" for younger kids, but my brothers play it and they don't get most of the sexual humor in it, and they don't go crazy and run people over for the fun of it.
i think kids are underestimated these days, they can handle a whole more than we give them credit for. i don't think games should be labelled at all, let kids take their own pick, they can decide what games they like.